What are your favorite Bay Area (SF and South) golf holes?

[Mike Benham]

With the discussion going about Bay Area golf, this SJ Mercury article is perfect for all to make their thoughts known:


BEST OF THE BEST - We're looking for your opinion on the best golf holes in the Bay Area.

Our goal is to construct the best fictional 18-hole golf course using holes from different golf courses. That means the best four par-3s, four par-5s and 10 par-4s.

The rules:
• Please e-mail epinkela@mercurynews.com with your ideas of the best hole, or holes, in the area along with a brief reason you think each hole qualifies. (For example: Anytown Muni, par-3 second hole: Red rock hill behind the hole makes spectacular view from tee.)

• If you work at a golf course, please don't vote for a hole on that course.

• We may use selected comments in the feature, so please let us know if you don't want your name used.

• The boundaries for our purposes will be Presidio to the north, Lake Chabot to the east and Ridgemark to the south. We are not including the Monterey area.

• Deadline for entries is Jan. 31.

[Kalen Braley]

If there is no west boundary then I guess the 18th at the old course at HMB would be a strong candidate for this list.

[Tom Huckaby]

This ought to be very interesting.  Mr. Benham and I have been bantering this back and forth since the SJ Merc column first appeared way back before Christmas.  As is my wont, I hastily dashed off something to the SJ Merc, whereas the more careful and thoughtful Mr. Benham has been painstakingly working for weeks on his submissions.

Without further ado, here is what I sent to SJ Merc.  I expect lambasting.  I did not try to make a course, but rather just nominated the best holes I could think of.


Par 3s

Cinnabar Hills (Canyon) #8 - the closest thing to a redan in the area ˇV fantastic look, plays very tough especially from tips.

Pasatiempo - #3  - plays very uphill, gorgeous bunkers, Mackenzie at his best.

Half Moon Bay (Ocean) #17.  We don't have many shots along cliffs above the ocean in our area; this hole merits mention simply for that.  Beyond this though it's a very tough shot requiring bravery to take the ball out over the cliffs and allow the wind to blow it back.. and the green is a subtle masterpiece.

Olympic Club (Lakeside) #3 - downhill, 200+ yards, Golden Gate bridge in the distance, history history history besides being very, very tough.

San Francisco GC #7 - the famous duel hole - one of the strangest, coolest, quirkiest greens you will ever see.

Spring Valley GC #4 -the toughest bunkerless hole one will ever play.  HUGE slope from left to rightˇK best not to hit the green off the tee.. bounce it in along the left then hope for the best.


Par 4s
Pasatiempo #10 - epic, heroic, tough, beautiful.  Other than that it's no big deal.  

Pasatiempo #11 -the longest 375 yards you'll ever play.  VERY uphill ˇV hazard on left and houses straight out lure you into hitting less than driver off the tee - don't.  You want to get as far up the holl as you can and I'd defy Tiger to hit it through the fairway straight out.  Barranca on left off tee must be crossed on 2nd; green has been softened in recent years but is still fiendish.  Just a great golf hole, perhaps the best on our fictional course.

Pasatiempo #16 -Mackenzie's favorite hole.  Tricky dog leg left with hump-back fairway and trouble on both sides - green must be seen to be believed, three tiers, very tough to hit.  Epic.

Coyote Creek (Tournament) #6 -long dog leg left over barranca to a severely-tiered green  - one of the toughest holes in the area on which to make a par, especially when the pin is cut on the upper left tier.

Coyote Creek (Tournament) #8 - shortish dog leg left with death left off the tee, death short of the green.  One can shorten it by hugging the hazard off the tee, but itˇ¦s not typically wise to try.  Very strategic, very fun, very tough.

Half Moon Bay (Ocean) #16 -  stunning view from the tee; wide fairway with many choices for an angle in; creek cutting in front of the green makes for a testing approach.

Cinnabar Hills (Mountain) #4 -OB right, tree in middle, rocks left - no problem with a tee shot like that!  Many ways to play it safe though; and then once you do find the fairway, you might have the tree in your way, and even if not, it's uphill shot to a devilish green.  Best hole of the 27 at Cinnabar by my reckoning.

Santa Teresa #12  - downhill off the tee, hard dog leg right, trees seemingly everywhere including the middle of the fairway near the green.  A perfectly placed tee shot is required to give a clear angle in, and even then it remains a very difficult shot.  Tough contours make the green the home of many a three-jack also.  Many hate this hole - as a Santa Teresa Men's Club member, I love it.

Ssn Juan Oaks #14 - a true split fairway with a definite equal choice between the two sides, which is rare indeed.

Shoreline GL #12 - risk reward to the max - with a helping wind the green can be driven - but only at great risk, all carry over water.  Normal shot is out to the right to the fairway, then over to the green, which is fiendishly contoured, btw.

Stanford GC #12 - long, downhill off the tee, pick your poison: right of the tree in the middle of the fairway is shorter and gives better angle into green, but too far right means hazard.  Left is easier but longer with a worse angle.  Just a great golf hole, one made such by the tree in the middle.

Metropolitan GL #16 - our own local version of an "Alps" hole; drive is either at, over, or around a LARGE mound, thus the alps.  Green is very cool.

Presidio GC #12 - tough, tough, tough.  Make a 4 here and write home about it.  Long, well bunkered, very difficult to get on in two.





Par 5s
Cinnabar Hills (Lake) #7 - generally three shottter (though it can be reached downwind or by the gorilla-large), which requires all three shots to show bravery, thought and execution.  Water in play off the tee and on the 2nd and if you get a back left pin, it looks like the flag is IN the water.  Scariest pitch shot in the Bay Area is from the left side of the fairway to a back left pin, especially after you've drowned your 2nd and that's the spot from which you are trying to get up and down for par!

Cinnabar Hills (Canyon) #6 - some hate it, I love it.  Bust one off the tee but be careful not to find the hazard on the rightˇK then choices choices choices after that.  Hazard splits fairway in two, approach to green is more uphill than it looks, then the putting surface remains devilishly contoured, if not what it once was. Great golf hole.  Those who hate it have no sense of humor.

Santa Teresa - #11 - home course advantage at its finest  - very tricky hole, uphill dog leg left with hazard running across the fairway in the crux of the dogleg.  Veterans know the corner can be cut  -but it is a very difficult shot - if successful though a mid-iron in is your fate.  Fantastic green also with a false front that gobbles up many a timid approach.

San Juan Oaks #15 -very uphill, very difficult -three precisely played shots are required to get home.  Just a devil of a golf hole, one I've never conquered.  Great green also.  Likely the greatest potential round ruiner on our fictional course.

Olympic Club (Lake) #16 -true three shotter -traditional, classic, excellent.

[Tom Huckaby]

If there is no west boundary then I guess the 18th at the old course at HMB would be a strong candidate for this list.

Total disagreement.  I find that to be one of the more over-rated holes I have ever seen.  I hate hate hate that golf hole, only because they sell the course like it's seaside based on this hole, when the truth is it's condo canyon for damn near the whole course.  It's also been wimpishly softened with the development of the hotel... the green is a shadow of what it once was.  Mandated layups with an iron off the tee on mid-length par fours don't get my blood pumping either.  Outside of that I just love it.  

TH

ps - I fully acknowledge most people love the hole, and it does provide one hell of a great view.  I just can't include it out of principle.  

[Kalen Braley]

Not to get too nit picky here, but looking on google maps reveals that ridgemark is actually quite a bit further east than Lake Chabot is.

Oh well!!!

They will need a category for par 6s as well for the 18th at Lake Chabot.  Sure its not a great hole, but its about as unique as they come in terms of length and trying to hit a ball from a severely downsloped fairway to a green thats above you.

[Kalen Braley]

If there is no west boundary then I guess the 18th at the old course at HMB would be a strong candidate for this list.

Total disagreement.  I find that to be one of the more over-rated holes I have ever seen.  I hate hate hate that golf hole, only because they sell the course like it's seaside based on this hole, when the truth is it's condo canyon for damn near the whole course.  It's also been wimpishly softened with the development of the hotel... the green is a shadow of what it once was.  Mandated layups with an iron off the tee on mid-length par fours don't get my blood pumping either.  Outside of that I just love it.  

TH

ps - I fully acknowledge most people love the hole, and it does provide one hell of a great view.  I just can't include it out of principle.  

Perhaps I may get flamed for this but the 18th at Pebble is flat the whole way and while it is a bit more strategic than HMB, the green is relativly flat as well. It fronts the same ocean and yet its one of the most revered holes in golf!

I think your disdain for the other 17 holes, which I can't fault you on, influences your viewpoint on 18.  It is breathtaking standing on that tee.  And if anything adding that hotel behind the 18th green took away from that hole!

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen, directions get murky here in our area where one thinks he's going south and due to the angle of the state he truly isn't.  I believe he just means no Monterey courses - don't go closer to Monterey than Ridgemark GC.

And yeah, I wish he allowed for Par 6s also because of course that Lake Chabot hole is/was a fave.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

PB18 has no mandated tee shot layup, nor has its green been softened, nor is it used for marketing purposes to sell an oceanside course with one hole anywhere near the ocean.

But as I say, this hatred is likely not shared by many.

In any case I concur it's a great view; and I'd agree the hotel took away from it.  The addition of the hotel just ruined the green, that's all... it used to be very unique, now it's no great shakes - much farther from the cliff, much flatter.

I admit my disdain for their marketing and the rest of the course does effect my take on 18, but even deleting that, the hole as it's played is pretty lame... 4iron layup, 8iron 2nd...

Thus I can't in good conscience include it.  But I'd bet anything it makes the writer's list.  I'll just weep a tear of sadness for our area when that occurs.
TH

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, directions get murky here in our area where one thinks he's going south and due to the angle of the state he truly isn't.  I believe he just means no Monterey courses - don't go closer to Monterey than Ridgemark GC.

And yeah, I wish he allowed for Par 6s also because of course that Lake Chabot hole is/was a fave.

 

Tom I figured as much!  

And yes I suffered from the same problems while living there because the hill lines "look" like they run from north to south. I figured seeing how this is a site of sticklers to details I would get my jab in.

By the way, that was a great list you put together off the top of your head.  Or did you have that list elsewhere and pulled a quick copy/paste job?  

[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - I did that list in about 15 minutes when the SJ Merc article first came out, and sent it to the guy then.  That's what I meant.  I cut and pasted from my email to him.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen - I did that list in about 15 minutes when the SJ Merc article first came out, and sent it to the guy then.  That's what I meant.  I cut and pasted from my email to him.

TH

Ahh my bad, I ran right over that first bit and on to the holes and thier descriptions!!!!

I guess I'll have to get my list in there as well!

[Tom Huckaby]

I hope a lot of GCAers send in a list... it'll be very funny to see who, if anyone, gets quoted....

 

[Steve Pieracci]

This is going to take some thinking.   I will ponder it this weekend.  

[Sean Leary]

6 and 11 at Diablo CC, in terms of the not so well known courses.

Huck,

None of the Par 4's at SFGC? 2,3 and 12 are my favorites..

[Jim Nugent]

I nominate #7 from Olympic Lake, the sub-300 yard par uphill par 4 with a narrow tri-level green.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:

I like the Diablo additions.

As for SFGC, oddly enough I did consider those... and the par 5 9th... and none made the cut.  Which of course is crazy given some of the ones that did... But yes, I will say that #12 Santa Teresa is superior to any of those.  Tillinghast who?

 

[Bill_McBride]

This list, described as "Bay Area," is extremely discriminatory against anything north of SF, a large area which many would consider part of the alleged "Bay Area."

Not sure how you can eliminate such golf holes as #7 or #9 Meadow Club, #15 or #18 Sonoma Golf Club.... or even the notorious #18 Indian Valley Golf Club!  

An official protest has been filed with the management.

[Kalen Braley]

This list, described as "Bay Area," is extremely discriminatory against anything north of SF, a large area which many would consider part of the alleged "Bay Area."

Not sure how you can eliminate such golf holes as #7 or #9 Meadow Club, #15 or #18 Sonoma Golf Club.... or even the notorious #18 Indian Valley Golf Club!  

An official protest has been filed with the management.

Well if you live in the San Jose area, anything north of Oakland or San Fran is the boonies.  

I also thought it odd that Hollister was included in the constest and nothing north of the city?  Last time I checked, Oakland and San Fran are more mid points in the north/south orientation of the bay area, not the endpoints!!!

[Tom Huckaby]

Gents - remember this is being asked for by the SAN JOSE Mercury.  Thus I have no issues with a south bay bias.  Hell the solid majority of Bay Area population is in San Jose and environs anyway.

But yes, broaden this to parts northward and the list would change quite a bit.  Remember also we're talking about a huge area... so to me his limitations make sense.  Man if you did this from Sonoma down to Hollister, you have to also include a lot more East Bay and Contra Costa county courses... and that's just a huge number of courses.  Limiting it like this guy did makes sense to me... it also likely makes up 95%+ of the courses this guy's readers will frequently play.

And Kaylen, again, you can't think of this in terms of true directional points, but rather PERCEIVED directions.  The perception remains that SF is due north from SJ, even though a look at a map shows that is far from true.  You had it right the first time... people perceive that the coastal mountains run north south, when of course they don't.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

Gents - remember this is being asked for by the SAN JOSE Mercury.  Thus I have no issues with a south bay bias.  Hell the solid majority of Bay Area population is in San Jose and environs anyway.

But yes, broaden this to parts northward and the list would change quite a bit.  Remember also we're talking about a huge area... so to me his limitations make sense.  Man if you did this from Sonoma down to Hollister, you have to also include a lot more East Bay and Contra Costa county courses... and that's just a huge number of courses.  Limiting it like this guy did makes sense to me... it also likely makes up 95%+ of the courses this guy's readers will frequently play.

And Kaylen, again, you can't think of this in terms of true directional points, but rather PERCEIVED directions.  The perception remains that SF is due north from SJ, even though a look at a map shows that is far from true.  You had it right the first time... people perceive that the coastal mountains run north south, when of course they don't.

TH

Hey if wikipedia says San Fran is the focal point of the bay area, then thus it hath been spoken from on high  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area

[Tom Huckaby]

I can live with that article.  We San Joseans make no claims to being the focal point of anything except our sports teams, which are slowly but surely making their way towards us.  As it is we have the only successful Bay Area franchise...

In any case, the point remains that this guy is a SAN JOSE Mercury writer, writing for a SAN JOSE audience.  If the SF Chron wants to do a competing list and go as far north as Bandon Oregon than by all means, then let them do so.  But this one remains correct for us.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

I can live with that article.  We San Joseans make no claims to being the focal point of anything except our sports teams, which are slowly but surely making their way towards us.  As it is we have the only successful Bay Area franchise...

In any case, the point remains that this guy is a SAN JOSE Mercury writer, writing for a SAN JOSE audience.  If the SF Chron wants to do a competing list and go as far north as Bandon Oregon than by all means, then let them do so.  But this one remains correct for us.

TH

I can dig that Tom.  I wouldn't expect any more from a local news reporter!!

Should we even try to make a top 18 list of only public courses, seeing how only .001% of people get to play the private ones anyways?  

[Tom Huckaby]

Oooh... that's a good point... touche.....

Oh well.  I just thought it would be too damn hard to make a list covering the huge area that truly is the Bay Area, thus my defense of this smaller section.

 

[Kalen Braley]

Oooh... that's a good point... touche.....

Oh well.  I just thought it would be too damn hard to make a list covering the huge area that truly is the Bay Area, thus my defense of this smaller section.

 

Screw it, lets go big with this thing!!!

As norcal brethern I think we need to start a full out campaign with the so cal boys.  Everyone knows there is natural disdain there anyways right?  Its not just the Giants and Dodgers and thier fans that have an axe to grind.

How about a nor cal dream 18, going up against a so cal dream 18.  And to give them a fighting chance we could just leave monterey out of it, because everyone knows so cal would get crushed if that stayed in play.

So i'll be the first to nominate at least 9 holes from trump national for the so cal boys...  

[Mike Benham]

Guys, simple rules for this one, as the reporter stated.  

If you want to include the North Bay, start your thread and write an article in a North Bay newspaper.

And Diablo CC doesn't count, it's east of Lake Chabot.

And perhaps, you might not be able to find 18 good holes