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Dan Moore

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Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« on: January 08, 2007, 02:00:17 PM »
This was one of my favorite discoveries so it warrants being the first of the New Year.  It was converted to housing in the 1960's I believe.  

There were 3-4 other courses in the immediate vicinity one of which was recently sold for housing.  



Closer view that overlaps somewhat.  





« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 10:43:26 AM by Dan Moore »
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RJ_Daley

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 02:18:35 PM »
Wow, from the shadowing those look like some seriously deep and busy bunkering designs.  While obviously a predominately north-south sort of straight away course, with a few interesting doglegs, it looks like it must have been a blast to play.  I haven't a clue which course it is.  The bunkering looks way too busy and detailed for Langford or Raynor.  Is the coastline 9 a different course or part of the same complex with a different designer?
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Chris_Blakely

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 02:24:47 PM »
Based on the short par 4's and bunkering, I figured it has to be a Langford & Moreau course.
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 05:57:05 PM »
RJ shame on you. ;)  Well they are bigger and bolder than usual.  I agree with you that assuming any elevation change at all this really looks like a fun ride.  

And some have said this architect only designs left to right doglegs.

How about that Saharaesque hole on the far right of the upper course image.  
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Chris_Blakely

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 07:57:30 PM »
My guess is Acacia CC in Harlem, IL
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Phil McDade

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 08:37:04 PM »
Dan:

Maybe one of the most fascinating looking courses you've posted in your aerials. Really cool designs on what appears to be a fairly boxed-in, conventional site, esp. the 5 or 6 holes in the upper third of the picture. Really bold stuff, compared to the blandness of the courses on the left and bottom of the picture.

I can definitely see some L/M there, RJ. Lots of angled, linear bunkers.
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2007, 08:08:50 PM »
The name of the course and location reminded my of Duke's Take the A Train to Harlem.  

This public course measured 6,500 yds.  Opened in 1924 it has been reported this was the designers 4th original design in Illinois.  

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Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2007, 05:59:29 PM »
Dan,
This looks like a course made for reviving via a golf course design program. Maybe I should find my old Nicklaus game and install it on this computer! Plenty of options off the tee on some holes!
My records show Acacia as private, at least when it opened in 1924. It was the successor to the Mystic Golf Assn., a non-real estate club. Langford (solo and with) Moreau had several designs (and remodeling jobs) to their credit by this time, including Aurora, Ridge, Marquette Park (a convoluted history I'm trying to untangle), Skokie Playfield and Butterfield, plus expansions/renovations of Ridgemoor and Bryn Mawr.
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2007, 06:37:37 PM »
It is Acacia Country Club in what was then Harlem, Illinois.  Daniel Wexler in Lost Links cited this as the 4th original design of Langford and Moreau in Illinois who also said it was public when it closed.   I wonder if that meant original 18 hole designs not redesigns.    

Riverside CC also pre-dated Acacia.  Did Langford and Moreau design Ridge in its current location?  The original Ridge nine was Tweedie if I remember correctly.  I thought Aurora was a redesign of a Bendelow.  

If it was public it looks like it was much better than other public courses in the area which survived much longer such as Timber Trails.    

Still much to uncover and learn about Langford and Moreau IMHO.  
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Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 09:39:15 PM »
Yes, Tweedie did the original Ridge, L&M doing Ridge II, the current site.
Aurora credits Bendelow for the current site but I have Langford on my chart; I'll have to double-check my files on that.
Looking at the original again, what's the course on the far left (west) side? That's where the Tri-State is now.
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RSLivingston_III

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 10:40:17 PM »
What a cool course! I would give almost anything to have had a chance to play this. This definitely puts L&M higher in my personal archie rankings.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 10:40:46 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Another NLE
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 10:40:27 AM »
Tim,

That is significant new information about Langford and Moreau having designed Ridge CC on its current site.  Do you know the year?  I don't recall seeing that mentioned anywhere before and its definitely not in Cornish and Whitten.  I posted the Ridge aerial last summer and attributed it to Tweedie.  

Here is Ridge in 1939 on a rectangular north south site quite simiar to that of Acacia.  The layout lacks the flair of Acacia in my opinion but some of the bunkering really fits the bill.  Quite a few of the bunkers and earthworks definitely look like L&M.  However, some of the other bunkering does not.  Was it redesigned later?  Did L&M employ varying bunkering styles from time to time?  In particular the ring of bunkers on the par 3 toward the top I have never seen before on any L&M course.  

Ridge CC 1939




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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2007, 10:52:20 AM »
Dan and Tim,

First, thanks for the Chicago pix and info. Keep it coming!  Second, I did notice the course west of the original aerial.  The scale of bunkers is so small compared to LM, so I think its earlier era design.

I have to wonder if L and M did this course. Not only are most of the bunkers not L and M, but the routing doesn't have the same triangulated flare that they managed to put on Accacia, depsite similarly rectangular properties.

The big blob bunkers look like Bendelow from the air. The long skinny ones look like even another architect.  There are a few that look like LM.  I do notice the same duel bunker we saw in the Mt. Prospect aerial last year, just left and below center in the Ridge photo.  Who did we decide designed MP?  Could be the same guy, and that is his signature feature.

Is it possible that it is Tweedie on this site, and that both Bendelow and LM did a partial redos, perhaps at their various tenures with American Park Builders, which would explain only some bunkers fitting their style?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 10:54:14 AM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2007, 11:13:01 AM »
Jeff,

I'd say we agree the varying bunker styles raise alot of questions.  However I disagree that the long skinny bunkers (assuming we are talking about those at the top left) are not L&M; you see that type of skinny, wraparound greenside bunker alot at Lawsonia.  

I don't think we identified the original architect at Mount Prospect, however when I checked the 1939 aerial I did not find the dual bunker so that wasn't original and must have a been added somewaht later.  

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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 11:32:07 AM »
Shivas,  

You didn't.  I posted a current day google earth image of the dual bunker at MP Jeff had referenced.  The 1939 MP aerial which I haven't posted is rather poor in quality.  Send me an IM with an email address and I'll send it to you.  
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 11:33:43 AM »
Dan,

Wrap arounds maybe, but the scale of those bunkers does not appear to be LM from anything else I have seen.  Thats why I question it.

Interesting about MP adding that bunker. Also may have been a remodel, or maybe they needed dirt to fill some ganster or mafia grave.......

Shivas - Where exactly did you live?  I grew up in Scarsdale on the SE corner of Arlilngton Hieghts, and it was just a bit too far to bike, but we must have been close.
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 11:41:44 AM »
Jeff,

What do you mean by scale?  Width?  Lenght?  

Here is what I meant at Lawsonia.  This bunkers wraps around the entire green.  

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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 12:14:39 PM »
Mostly width. They appear as mere slivers on some of the Ridge bunkers, and with little shape whatsoever, whereas LM bunkers were long, had more width, and even, via shadows, more depth.  I will grant you the Lawsonia bunkers don't look as wide as other LM bunkers, so maybe their scale grew as time went on.
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tlavin

Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2007, 12:21:28 PM »
Boy, I'd love to see Shivas' architectural review of Ridge CC, a course about two miles south of Beverly.  I have fondly dubbed it the Tavern With a Nice Backyard, because it has a very fun membership and a very pedestrian if difficult track at times, principally because of Lilliputian greens that run at 12 on a regular basis.  I have played Ridge a bunch and I don't know that I could point out more than four interesting holes, from an architectural standpoint.

I know that many on this site rightfully promote L&M's efforts at other courses, but this one may have mercifully slipped from memory.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2007, 12:47:06 PM »
Shiv,

Obviously, your mother wasn't overprotective like mine. I think I would have biked it, but she wouldn't have liked crossing Central with bulky clubs, etc.  She didn't even like me crossing State Road to get to South Jr. High.  Ahh, I remember Junior High.....best four years of my life! ;D
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Chris_Blakely

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2007, 12:52:50 PM »
Dan,

Did you know the course that is too the west (left side) of the orginal aerial of Acacia CC.

Thanks,
Chris
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Phil McDade

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2007, 01:13:28 PM »
Dan and Co.:

I can definitely see vestiges of L/M's design approaches on the Ridge aerial, esp. the liner/angled fairway bunkering on the two long holes on the left side of the aerial, the near-wraparound bunkers on the two greens in the upper left, and the neat linear mound/ridge about 75-100 yards from the green on the dogleg in the bottom center. Granted, the circular bunkers, esp. the ones that surround the one green, look out of place on a L/M designed course.

Dan, I've been wondering this about some of these L/M aerials re. the bunkering and Jeff's point. I wonder if we think of L/M architecture from the perspective of their most -- for lack of a better word -- stylized (and publicized) courses: remnants of Skokie, Wakonda, the original Harrison Hills, and esp. Lawsonia. Perhaps L/M's style continually evolved and emerged, and they adopted the much more linear/engineered/stylized look later in their career. It would be interesting to find out exactly when Ridge was designed; Lawsonia opened in 1930, if I remember correctly.
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Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2007, 10:07:15 PM »
The original Ridge at 103rd and Western was a 1901 Tweedie production. He dropped by after play began and formailzed the course, for lack of a better term. There might not even have been nine holes at first. (The Ridge CC Centennial book is sketchy on that.)
The Ridge of today dates to 1917, built on the Airey / Boutell farm at 103rd and California. It was Langford, pre-Moreau. Don't know if L&M came back later for a tweak or two, but Killian and Nugent revised it in 1972.
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2007, 12:22:09 AM »
Tim,

Ridge is Langford pre-Moreau.  Skokie Playfield (now Winnetka) was also pre-Moreau and only 9 holes.   Does that explain the stylistic differences?  

The routing does not look as advanced as Acacia but that may be due to a more restricted site.  The straight back and forth nature of the holes looks more like Bendelow.  langford was known for elevated large greens (see Lawsonia photo) yet Terry Lavin says Ridge's greens are Lilliputian.  Are they built up like Langford greens?  Any chance Bendelow was a participant at Ridge?  

How about LaGrange CC?  Their website says the course was designed by Bendelow and Langford.  Pretty similar to Ridge wouldn't you say.  My guess is Bendelow then Langford.  Another narrow rectangular site which is located pretty close to Acacia actually.



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Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial Acacia CC Tim Cronin uncovers another L&M at Ridge CC
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2007, 01:11:20 AM »
I have La Grange as Bendelow from 1913 (the current site is the club's second location). "Discovering Donald Ross" has DR revising in 1921. Don't know about Langford, but my La Grange listing is sketchy.
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