[Craig Disher]

Bob,
What I think's outrageous is that a member here would make an effort to read IMs between other members. I've always assumed that anything posted here, including IMs, would be open to the moderators or admins. So what. But I didn't expect others would want to read something clearly not intended for them.

[George Pazin]

Why allow gossip behind the scenes...That is what I don't get and why I think the IM feature should be taken down.  Let what is said be heard by all under real names we all can see.

Idiotic idea #46,372 coming from you. For a bright guy, you sure come up with a lot of wacky ones.

[Dan Kelly]

If ever there was a topic that deserved to be removed this is NOT IT!

Read through what has been written so far and you will find a group of people being introspective, sober and honest in expressing their feelings about what has become a scandal as such for GCA.

This should NOT be swept under the rug and put up in the attic like some 'funny uncle.'

This is a wake-up call and should remain ringing...

Agree enthusiastically.

[John Kavanaugh]

Why allow gossip behind the scenes...That is what I don't get and why I think the IM feature should be taken down.  Let what is said be heard by all under real names we all can see.

Idiotic idea #46,372 coming from you. For a bright guy, you sure come up with a lot of wacky ones.

George,

So you think it is good for the future of architecture if posters on this site can say one thing in public about a course and then another in private.  Don't you think that is an abuse of the spirit of this site...I think the IM feature stifles truthfulness.  Why should it be a secret if you want to go somewhere and play private courses.  Why should it be a secret if you don't like another poster or think his wife is ugly.  If you are willing to say such things to one member of this site why shouldn't you say it to every member.  If you know someone so well that you can trust them with this type of information shouldn't you at least have their email or phone number.  When did GCA become a forum for hidden backstabbing and gossip.  Please...give me one example where it would be valuable for an IM to remain secret.

note:  The only kink in the GCA software is if your secret question is so stupid that anyone could figure it out.

[Tim Pitner]

I'd rather talk about college football than this nonsense.

[BCrosby]

Jeez John, do you really not see how outrageous it is for you to assume this holier than thou responsibility to protect us from ourselves?

Do you not understand why many of us find that offensive?

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob - at times like this, doesn't it remind one that he who hath no sinned shall throw the first stone?

Perhaps JakaB hath not sinned.

 

[BCrosby]

Perhaps JakaB hath not sinned.

 

Wanna bet?

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob - that sounds to me painfully similar to football bets suggested to me by Pat Mucci.  

 

But there was a reason why the offender didn't get stoned to death.

 

[George Pazin]

Why allow gossip behind the scenes...That is what I don't get and why I think the IM feature should be taken down.  Let what is said be heard by all under real names we all can see.

Idiotic idea #46,372 coming from you. For a bright guy, you sure come up with a lot of wacky ones.

George,

So you think it is good for the future of architecture if posters on this site can say one thing in public about a course and then another in private.  Don't you think that is an abuse of the spirit of this site...I think the IM feature stifles truthfulness.  Why should it be a secret if you want to go somewhere and play private courses.  Why should it be a secret if you don't like another poster or think his wife is ugly.  If you are willing to say such things to one member of this site why shouldn't you say it to every member.  If you know someone so well that you can trust them with this type of information shouldn't you at least have their email or phone number.  When did GCA become a forum for hidden backstabbing and gossip.  Please...give me one example where it would be valuable for an IM to remain secret.

note:  The only kink in the GCA software is if your secret question is so stupid that anyone could figure it out.

Aside from the simple elegance of what Bob Crosby said, I'll simply add that to me, the IM feature is no different than emailing someone. I can't even begin to presume the arrogance of someone who feels the need to waste everyone's time posting everything out in the open.

Here's a simple example, just from today alone. Young Matthew Hunt from Ireland asked me where he could find a copy of Anatomy of a Golf Course, which I had recommended to him when he joined the site and asked about reading material. I told him I'd send him a copy if he'd send me his mailing address.

DOES IT REALLY MEAN THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT THAT YOU (AND EVERYONE ELSE) WEREN'T PRIVVY TO THIS MARVELOUS, SHAKESPEAREAN EXCHANGE?

[John Kavanaugh]

George,

Exactly and why would you care if someone did read that exchange.  People would not care about this issue if they were not gossiping or behaving in a manner that was not allowed in the open.

Bob,

I agree that I was wrong and it is outrageous. The best part about the entire episode was when I told Huck out in the open that I had deleted his account and he did not believe me.  

[Bill_McBride]

Bob,

I agree that I was wrong and it is outrageous.

It's a first!  

[JESII]

I'm not sure which side of the fence I'd come down on if forced...it really wouldn't change my life or my interests in this site...but having just reviewed my inbox I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of IM's (including many with John K) are better kept off-line for one simple reason...they distract from the conversation at hand.

In a forum predisposed to misdirection, it would seem detrimental to have the garbage in my inbox in the middle of the conversations they are related to.

That being said, I would bet John K would stand by everything he says off-line[/i] better than most on here. Therefore I see him as no sinner in the context Tom Huckaby and Bob Crosby were just referring to.

[Craig Disher]

George,

Exactly and why would you care if someone did read that exchange.    

Not intending to preempt George - because the invitation to send an IM says "Send this member a private message."

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob,

I agree that I was wrong and it is outrageous. The best part about the entire episode was when I told Huck out in the open that I had deleted his account and he did not believe me.  

That surely showed how naive I was.  I couldn't believe then that anyone would CARE to try and log in as another poster, never mind using the secret question answer as a means to do such.

I still can't.

But you remain quite unique, and I guess I am grateful for the life lesson.  I have to say my previous ignorance was rather blissful though.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Sully:

You're likely correct about John and his lack of sin in this matter.  He is unique in that respect as well.  That's why I said - with sincerity - that perhaps he hasn't sinned.

I just wouldn't take any bet trying to figure out JakaB.  He puts the U in unique, without a doubt.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Huck,

I wish I could remember what you said that pissed me off enough that I wished I could delete your account just to get you to shut the hell up for once.  You drove me to it my friend and I'm sure it was architecture related.  Who can honestly say they themselves haven't wished for a Huck mute button a time or two.

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I wish I could remember what you said that pissed me off enough that I wished I could delete your account just to get you to shut the hell up for once.  You drove me to it my friend and I'm sure it was architecture related.  Who can honestly say they themselves havn't wished for a Huck mute button a time or two.

Well, as far as I can tell, you did it twice.  I'm not sure what I said the first time, but the second time you "muted" me for perceived insults to Notre Dame.

Interesting rationalization that I "drove you to this" though.  I guess I learn more and more each day.

TH

[BCrosby]

Hat tip, John. Thanks for your response.

Sully -

It's not that only non-sinners can spy. No one should be doing it.

Bob

[JESII]

Bob,

No question. I mis-interpreted the "sinning" as in John K's referrence of saying one thing in the public DG and a totally different thing on the same subject in "private".

While I don't really care, and actually expect the moderators of this site to have access to my IM account, I would not think any other individual should.

Apologies for min-understanding the SIN.

[George Pazin]

I'm not sure which side of the fence I'd come down on if forced...it really wouldn't change my life or my interests in this site...but having just reviewed my inbox I came to the conclusion that the vast majority of IM's (including many with John K) are better kept off-line for one simple reason...they distract from the conversation at hand.

In a forum predisposed to misdirection, it would seem detrimental to have the garbage in my inbox in the middle of the conversations they are related to.

Very well said.

And, just for the record, I think I sent Jim an IM last week telling him I thought one of his posts was very insightful.

I AM REALLY SORRY YOU DIDN'T GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO EAVESDROP ON THAT LITTLE TIDBIT, JOHN. KNOWING NOW THAT THIS MUST CAUSE YOU UNBEARABLE PAIN, FROM NOW ON I WILL CC YOU ON ALL OF MY IMs.

[JESII]

By the way Bob Crosby and Tom Huckaby.

I am holding an auction for the 100 used clubs that have been taking up space in my trunk for a few years. You two are invited and offered front row seats. I swear they are worth more now as collectors items than any new club on the market...

Believeing that JK is reading your IM's qualifies you two for Bozo of The Year...in duplicate.

[Tom Huckaby]

Sully:

Go read his posts to me in this thread.

Now I am not sure he's read my IM's - and in fact I don't believe I ever said that on here.  

But I am 100% certain he used the answer to my secret question to change things in my profile, and to delete me off of this forum entirely at least once.  Go look in your profile - there's a "delete user" button.  That's now JK deleted me.  The answer to my secret question was exceedingly obvious, due to my naivete.  

JK himself admits this - it's not in question at all.

So sure, I might be a bozo, but not for this issue.

I am interested in old clubs though!

 

[TEPaul]

John Kavanaugh:

I say it to you from time to time but let me say it again.

Your sense of humor is just great and about as dry as a classic course's fairways need to be when maintained to perfect degree of the absolute Ideal Maintenance Meld's firm and fast.

[JESII]

TEP,

I hope you are correct, I really do...

It appears a couple of people really think this happened so I will retract my nomination for Bozo of the year until I decide if a self nomination might be in order.

This is all very strange if you ask me.

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