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Bob_Huntley

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Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2006, 01:34:45 PM »
With respect, this sounds like a pissing match in a school yard.

Bob

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2006, 01:38:53 PM »
With respect, this sounds like a pissing match in a school yard.

Bob


And I believe the participants are doing such INTO the wind ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2006, 01:52:13 PM »
Here's my advice to everyone, but especially those po'd and thinking of leaving:

Take some time and think about everything you've experienced on the site and all the friendships you've made. And, yeah, even think of the times that someone has p@#$ed you off. Then consider that that was not necessarily their primary goal. We're all here to enjoy the game and its wonderful playing fields.

Take a couple deep breaths and enjoy the Holidays with your family and friends (and remember that we're all friends here on the site, at least to some degree).

See you soon.

 :)

George
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2006, 01:59:16 PM »
A couple of points.

This subject of golf course architecture, the history of such and people that take it so seriously so as to portray themselves as be all and end all authorities on what is correct, right, or error and wrong, causes too many over zealous personalities.  They seem to become unstable and irrational.  It is a f**&king hobby gentlemen, not a crusade!

To that end, we have people that have become doyens and YABB Gods -and what not- because they have posted volumes of material, wit, wisdom, foolishness, sanctimonious piety, and psuedo-intellectual horsehockey, etc.  OF COURSE I INCLUDE MYSELF!!!  :o

I also include Tom Paul, and Tommy Naccarato, and all the rest, you know who you are!  ::)

I have gone once to the dark side to post a still unknown jerk's idea of a joke, and IP address and name or false name of the perpetrator in an effort to warn others off of his malicious idea of a joke.  So, I'm not pure on this matter.

But, this thread is really causing me to think I have overstayed my time here.  The most important thing here to be gleaned from the above threads is VIOLATION OF PRIVACY!!!  

The fact that a moderator can read IM's (and apparently has) is enough to make me want to quite right here and now.  Especially when one of the moderator's (Tommy) has always been one of the most passionate and zealous participants in the site.  He can't help himself that he loves the subject so much, and has so much of his time invested in "sharing" his considerable knowledge.  But, THAT IS NO EXCUSE FOR ANY VIOLATION OF PRIVACY.  It suggests that he and others feel like they somehow own the site and its subject matter.  If he reads IM's to see what folks are saying on the back channel, then a pox on him.  

But, now we have Barney JakaB, John Kavanaugh yammering that he can/might somehow have been entertaining himself with reading what goes on in stated "private IMs".  Kavanaugh, if that is your idea of jokster, provacatuer, bomb thrower, contrarian, bullshitter, then go F yourself!  You are the equivalent of a discourse terrorist.  That sort of provacatuer proclamation is cancer and will kill this otherwise entertaining and generally informative website that has on the surface fostered many friendships, sharing of good times, exchange of interesting knowledge, and intellectual lubrication about a subject that has a specific community of interest that is unique.  

I'm a bit to worked up to go on here, and I hope folks take these revelations to heart.  We always hurt the ones we love, or some such.  Is this the end stage of what has been a wonderful ride through an interesting subject via Ran's brilliant effort to create a discussion site, and now has become effete?  :'(
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2006, 02:01:02 PM »
 8)

Internet Messenger messages.. really nothing sacred or confidential about them.. kind like yelling out your door at passer-by or over wall to next cubicle.. just electronic communication.. like taping a telephone call or using an answering machine.. its out there, your words, your responsibility, and culpability..  
 
Sad, amazing thread, sort of reminds me of ol' classic 6 phases of a project (i.e. with new added item 3a):

1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic    3a. Destruction of Evidence
4. Search for the Guilty
5. Punishment of the Innocent
6. Praise and Honors for the Non-participants

as its 65°F and sunny, my boss just left the office, i must do some field work.. let the tar and feathering begin..

i anxiously await to see what transpires this PM..

..disrobing
..dethroning
..sensitivity training / rehab announcement
..a 12 step program for future well being
..new rules of engagement
..peace and love
..bandwidth reduction
..1498 DG members vs 1497

p.s. perhaps having alias names wasn't so bad for this DG?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 02:06:11 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2006, 02:02:59 PM »
I've got some advice too.....stop taking yourselves so seriously.  

I cannot believe that a difference of opinion has denegrated to this.  It is embarrassing.  It is not like we are writing the history of the United States here or something.  

Who really cares???

If the "truth" is so damn important then why not crusade over something important.  Not that the history of Merion isn't important ;), but something like who really bombed the World Trade Center, do we really know where Osama is, what is the point of the war in Iraq?  

Is there really water on Mars?  Did Carl Rove leak those agents names, is Michael Jackson really a woman and how many licks DOES it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

From the George Crump/Pine Valley article itself, Macwood has been a helluva valuable contributor here.  Who gives a damn about his Art and Crafts theory?  You've had a boner for him for a good long while now, Mr. Paul, with his leaving I guess you have finally won.  Have a beer on me tonight :-\      
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2006, 02:06:10 PM »
You guys are the voice of reason I needed!

Steve,
Great point. It's beautiful here today, a bit blustery, but I'm going out and doing where I think I'm my very best person--that's being on a golf course. I love it out there. I've worked my own 12 Step program hard, I've been working hard at my job and deserve it.

Merry Xmas!

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2006, 02:06:19 PM »
Somewhere in rainy Seattle, Jordan Wall is licking his chops.  

He's thinking, "if everyone leaves the discussion group, me and Tom Doak can talk everyday!"
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tom Huckaby

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2006, 02:11:53 PM »
MD - ok, I was dying at your 2nd to last post... and of course the answer to that greatest existential question is indeed THREE.... but man your last one has me ROLLING.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Extremely well done, extreme kudos.

Now all this talk about getting out and playing the game has me inspired as well.  There is no I in can't, and I don't have to be where I am today.  I'm gonna play dammit whether that wuss Benham will join me or not.

TH

Ryan Farrow

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2006, 02:20:00 PM »
RJ, from my understanding the privacy issue is not limited to Golf Club Atlas. The layout, security, design of this type of thing is pretty universal and if you go around the web you will notice many discussion forums that look identical just with some different colors. I don't think it is the fault of anyone here but it’s just a set standard. Perhaps people would be more comfortable if there was some kind of warning or notice about the IM issue.  


Can I start a motion to delete this thread? I feel bad enough I wasted my time reading through it all, maybe we can save a few others.



*EDIT

may we keep this part:

Somewhere in rainy Seattle, Jordan Wall is licking his chops.  

He's thinking, "if everyone leaves the discussion group, me and Tom Doak can talk everyday!"
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 02:22:56 PM by Ryan Farrow »

Jay Flemma

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2006, 02:21:23 PM »
I just want to point out two things.  First Dick Daley, the eminent..indeed quintessential voice of reason, fair dealing, comradery and golf spirit has become angry.

If a good man like him is angry, perhaps we should examine why.

Last...and Tommy this is not meant as any disrespect...I have always found Cary to be an estimable, dignified and generous gentleman.

Cary and Dick set a good example for us all.  So do bob huntley, mark Rowl. and Phil.  They are never part of any Back room plots, skulduggery or character assassination...you don't see them squabbling or name-calling or "choosing up sides"...lets be deferential to and take a cue from our wisest and most sensible corner.

Its Christmas.  [or whatever other holiday you celebrate] Many of us hold grudges and are angry, but now is the time we should be healing those feelings and seeing that the differences between us are not as great as we think.  But it takes an  effort by all of us...in some cases maybe some people have to try harder...but you'll get more props if you make the effort than if you just do what comes fastest and easiest.  Whatever is learned can be unlearned...

Dick, please stay.  We need your good example.  Hell, I need your good example.  To everyone else, this is a good time for self reflection.  I will say this, I have enjoyed this Christmas season because despite it being the busiest I have ever had, the spirit of being nice to people for no reason has been strong.  Lets all make an extra effort.

This type of self-introspection as a group is healthy to this board...sweeping issues like these under the rug only magnifies them later.

***Glory to god in the highest.  And on earth, Peace...goodwill to all men."
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 02:27:56 PM by Jay Flemma »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2006, 02:32:07 PM »
MD -  

Since you have listed many of the great mysteries that keep many of us awake at night, you can cross off the list "Who Leaked the BALCO testimony from the Grand Jury" ...

"... and I liked the guy ..."

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2006, 02:40:38 PM »
Jay, you are one very fine gentleman.  Thank you for your kind words of respect.  I can't think of a single more wonderful Christmas present than respect from a man that I respect equally.  You have a great wisdom about you, and is a common trait of many wonderful posters on GCA.com.

R E S P E C T is a great gift to give anytime of year.  

Here on GCA.com we must realise that we are members of a pretty small but passionate discussion community of people interested in a pretty small subject.  We should always strive for respect for the subject, the people that have thoughts and comments, and for your opponent if you find yourself on the other side of a debatable issue.  That will go a long ways towards maintaining the health of the discussion.  

If someone wants to through bombs, make verbal IEDs, they have a place for those folks in Iraq and other hell holes of the world.  Let's keep our little corner of the world peaceful and insulated via mutual respect, and ignore those that would tear us down with misplaced-disrespectful to the community and misspoken words.  

Peace, over and out...  8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2006, 02:45:16 PM »


But, now we have Barney JakaB, John Kavanaugh yammering that he can/might somehow have been entertaining himself with reading what goes on in stated "private IMs".  Kavanaugh, if that is your idea of jokster, provacatuer, bomb thrower, contrarian, bullshitter, then go F yourself!  You are the equivalent of a discourse terrorist.  That sort of provacatuer proclamation is cancer and will kill this otherwise entertaining and generally informative website that has on the surface fostered many friendships, sharing of good times, exchange of interesting knowledge, and intellectual lubrication about a subject that has a specific community of interest that is unique.  


How will it kill a site that is supposed to be about architecture if people are no longer able to suck up for access out in the open and then tell the truth behind the scenes.  I personally don't know what good comes from IM's and wonder what is being said that is so secret and private.  Just to clear this up...Huck never did anything or said anything that I read that was either abusive of this site or out of character as we know him in his IM's.  If he had I wouldn't have told him myself of his security breach.  If anyone is worried about what I may have seen I would suggest worrying about what you said and not what I know.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2006, 02:58:11 PM »
As most people know, I am a bit of a Luddite here.

Can someone, other than a moderator, read other people's IMs?

Bob

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2006, 03:04:54 PM »


But, now we have Barney JakaB, John Kavanaugh yammering that he can/might somehow have been entertaining himself with reading what goes on in stated "private IMs".  Kavanaugh, if that is your idea of jokster, provacatuer, bomb thrower, contrarian, bullshitter, then go F yourself!  You are the equivalent of a discourse terrorist.  That sort of provacatuer proclamation is cancer and will kill this otherwise entertaining and generally informative website that has on the surface fostered many friendships, sharing of good times, exchange of interesting knowledge, and intellectual lubrication about a subject that has a specific community of interest that is unique.  


How will it kill a site that is supposed to be about architecture if people are no longer able to suck up for access out in the open and then tell the truth behind the scenes.  I personally don't know what good comes from IM's and wonder what is being said that is so secret and private.  Just to clear this up...Huck never did anything or said anything that I read that was either abusive of this site or out of character as we know him in his IM's.  If he had I wouldn't have told him myself of his security breach.  If anyone is worried about what I may have seen I would suggest worrying about what you said and not what I know.

 what if Huck, for example, had used IMs to communicate with a friend about a personal issue of either his or his friend?
did you ever think about that?

how would you like someone tapping your phone?  its the same thing as you breaking into his IMs

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2006, 03:06:14 PM »
Boys will be boys.  Is there a little bit here of the pot calling the kettle black?  Why do we spend the time badmouthing others on IMs?  Is doing so in this way any different than by email, phone, or face-to-face without the presence of the maligned party?

It is healthy to have and discuss different opinions.  No one here has a monopoly on the truth.  And like with any organization, the tone is set by the top.  Passion is no excuse for bad manners, a lack of civility, or the backbiting that goes on behind the scenes.

BTW, I have not read the offending thread, but most of what I read from TE Paul I take as tongue-in-cheek.  Part of the problem we may be having is that the tone, context, and nuance does not come through clearly with this type of communication.  I am assuming that everyone has come to Mike Cirba's realization- we can choose which threads and replies get our attention.

As to my friend Dick Dailey getting angry, I can get that done rather easily.  He is a kind-hearted soul and delightful guy on golf trips, but he has a Latin boiling point that's accessible.   We are all reasonable and fair so long as you are in agreement on the given subject.  ;)

I do share John K's amusement that what we sometimes hear in private about gca bears such little resemblance to what we read in the public DG.  Also, I hate to use the B-B term, but the tendency here is noticeably growing and it is annoying.  I guess that we all want to be one of the boys.  

Eric Franzen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2006, 03:07:24 PM »

Can someone, other than a moderator, read other people's IMs?

Bob

A moderator doesn't usually have access to IM's in most forum applications that I have experience from working with... The administrator and other people with access to the data base is a different story.
 

Mike_Cirba

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2006, 03:16:36 PM »
At the rate the number of posts on the Merion thread are presently disappearing, I would venture that it's probably behind at least 2 of the Rees Jones thread by this point in terms of numbers.  ;)

I like the "dinner table" rule that Jay mentioned.

Don't say anything here that you wouldn't say to someone's face across a dinner table.   That should work as far as respect and common sense.

I'd also say that persons should never post after drinking copious amounts of fluids, but truth be told, I've probably written some of my best stuff (at least in terms of reaction and feedback) after some refreshment.   ;D

I now understand the "flask architecture" stuff all too well!

Sorry Ian.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 03:17:50 PM by Mike Cirba »

Phil_the_Author

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #69 on: December 22, 2006, 03:17:33 PM »
If ever there was a topic that deserved to be removed this is NOT IT!

Read through what has been written so far and you will find a group of people being introspective, sober and honest in expressing their feelings about what has become a scandal as such for GCA.

This should NOT be swept under the rug and put up in the attic like some 'funny uncle.'

This is a wake-up call and should remain ringing...

Glenn Spencer

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2006, 03:30:01 PM »
What are some of the other GCA scandals? Tom MacWood certainly had some good information and I will miss his posts, if he in fact his account is now defunct. I would like to see the posts from the Merion thread that caused the trouble, I can't imagine that they are any worse than the treatment that I constantly receive from Pat Mucci. ;)

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2006, 03:42:58 PM »
The shorter John Kavanaugh:

I don't like the way you people use IM's so it's ok if I keep spying on you. If you don't like that, then don't use IM's for messages you want to keep private.

Am I the only person here that finds that outrageous?

Bob

 
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 03:50:20 PM by BCrosby »

John Kavanaugh

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2006, 03:50:29 PM »
Bob,

It is outrageous to think I can read your IM's....I just think it is ok for the moderators to read them if they choose.  I think it protects the architectural integrity of the site.  Personally, given the international nature of this site I would suggest everyone also assume their phone is tapped.  God knows I do.

Why allow gossip behind the scenes...That is what I don't get and why I think the IM feature should be taken down.  Let what is said be heard by all under real names we all can see.

Kyle Harris

Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2006, 03:54:17 PM »
"Three can keep a secret if two are dead."

-Ben Franklin

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What Goes On In An IM Stays In An IM....
« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2006, 03:56:57 PM »
John -

My post was not about the kinks in the GCA software. That's not outrageous.

My post was about your behavior. That's what's outrageous. And that applies to anyone else (other than the monitors) who has elected to spy on my IM's.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 03:57:42 PM by BCrosby »

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