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Alliss vs. Dougherty
« on: May 26, 2008, 12:51:52 PM »
From The Independent

Alliss in war of words with 'thin-skinned' Dougherty

By James Corrigan at Wentworth
Monday, 26 May 2008
 


The old and the new worlds are always prone to collide in golf, yet rarely have they done so as angrily, or indeed as entertainingly, as Nick Dougherty and Peter Alliss here yesterday.

In an extraordinary exchange, the young professional accused the veteran BBC man of "disgusting commentary", of "showing no respect" and of being "out of touch". Alliss then hit back by accusing Dougherty and his generation of being "so bloody delicate" and poured scorn upon their excellence.

It all began after Dougherty had finished down the field in the BMW PGA Championship and was asked for his opinions on the controversial West Course greens that apparently assisted the gusts in causing Saturday's havoc when scores spiralled. But instead of attacking the putting surfaces, he went straight for the jugular of Alliss, who, with his stinging barbs, angered many watching in the Players' Lounge.

"I thought his commentary was disgusting," said the 26-year-old of Alliss, 51 years his senior. "He was talking about us being bad putters. I don't know whether it's because he has been out of the game for so long, but he ought to show us more respect. I wish we could take him out there and show him how difficult it was."

Alliss responded with incredulity rather than tact. "I know it is bloody difficult," he said. "I played at Wentworth before they had bloody watering, when you had eight wooden shots into the green with your second shot. Don't tell me it's bloody difficult. I won 21 tournaments, played in eight Ryder Cups. I am not here to do anything but say what is going on and they didn't play well.

"They are so thin-skinned nowadays. It is quite extraordinary. They all say they can take criticism and they don't mind constructive criticism. Balls. They do mind."

The old boy was just warming up and continued on what will soon become a famous golfing rant. "If it is not all perfect now, they all complain," he said. "They nearly had a walkout on Friday because the ninth green was flooded. 'Nobody told me,' they all said. As far as I am concerned, that's the way it is. Years ago, the courses weren't manicured and you had to make the most of it. I always say the golfers of a 100 years ago were 10 times more skilful. They had hickory clubs, the bunkers weren't raked, the greens weren't cut, sheep were on the course and a fellow cut the greens with a bloody scythe. And they went around St Andrews in 73 or 74.

"What did he say? 'Take him out and show him how hard it is?' Christ almighty. Hard is when Nicklaus took 84 at Royal St George's. Now, that's hard. There were no courtesy cars and all that. I had to play two rounds of bloody golf at St Andrews and then drive home through the night to give Mrs Anderson a lesson on Saturday morning. There you are. I'm sorry he is upset, because Nick is a nice lad. But he will get over it."

Alliss showed just how unrepentant he was by making repeated references to the argument through his description of yesterday's last round. For instance when the Indian Jyoti Randhawa came up 30 metres short of the 12th green, Alliss asked: "Am I allowed to say that was a mishit? Or would that be too cruel?"



Patrick Glynn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 01:36:34 PM »
Even though I am more definitely one of the "new" generation, I actually side with Peter Alliss on this one. He is exactly what I think sets golf apart from all other sports. I watched the PGA on the BBC this weekend, and Saturday was indeed painful. A fellow Irishman shot 79, and McGingley is just about our best ball striker & a more seasoned campaigner you will not find. Was it difficult? Absolutely. Still didnt stop Miguel Angel Jimenez finishing birdie-birdie (where he won the Tournament IMHO) Or as Peter prefers to refer to him "Jimmy - Jimmy"  ;D

I know from my own "conditioning" I actually have to stop myself gettin upset when the greens in Lahinch are a little slow, or the bunkers arent perfectly raked. Didnt stop my uncle shooting 71 when you had to land the ball 30 yards short of the (current) 3rd during the summer to keep it on the green. No watering in those days! And the perfectly turned out course wont help me break 80.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 01:54:46 PM »
I think Peter has a point, a very good point. Golf is played in most conditions and golfers should accept the challenge of the unknown (one reason why I love playing on different course). Just a few weeks ago I read Ian Andrews report from Scotland and I remember his photos, wow that was a challenge, real balls and determination.

Just what are these Guys going to make of Askernish if it’s not a sunny day?

The Game we all play is Golf – many of us have been saying for years that the game is changing and not for the best. It’s hard out there at times, of course it is, its Golf.

IMHO the game but more importantly the Golfer has changed over the years, No Walking Courses, Carts, Electronic Aids, the high tech set of Clubs and balls all pamper the modern Golfer, oh and lets not forget money. All this may have helped some to forget what the game was once about but the Pro’s should know better. 

If you enjoy watching “Prima Donnas”, well that your choice - does Dougherty qualify as a prima donna, well again that's down to your opinion.

I say well done Peter Alliss, a good rant is good for the game once in a while, go on my boy, get it off your chest …and yes the truth will sometime hurts.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 03:38:54 PM »
One more reason why I love Alliss. There are those may not agree with his apporach to this situation, but where is he wrong? A much needed breath of fresh air.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2008, 04:02:54 PM »
My nature is certainly to side with Alliss and in this case it does sound like something we have all wanted to say to athletes who seem to bitch and moan while in the middle of making their millions!

But I also got to meet Nick Dougherty and play a couple of rounds with him and he is a really nice guy and a helluva player and maybe we should all realize we have bad days and/or say things from time to time we all wish were not reported on by the press.

Ironically, when I played with Nick it was at The St. Andrews Links Tournament during weather so bad that during our second round the Scottish Golf Union actually cancelled the round due to the severity of the wind and rain!  ANyone who has ever competed in one of their events knows how bad that weather must have been for them to cancel the round!

Anyway , Nick played great in that horrible weather and never once let on that it even slightly bothered him--a true gentleman as well and I think he was only 19 years old or so.  Maybe he needs to remember what he put up with as an amateur and just "suck it up" a bit!?

But I would definitley say he's no prima donna--maybe just a guy having a bad day.  A prima donna has to "earn" that moniker through more than just this instance.




 

Michael Powers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2008, 04:17:33 PM »
Having played several rounds with Nick when he was a teenager, he always struck me as a well-rounded, pleasant, and thoughtful guy.  Although he was Faldo's protege (we used to call him The Chosen One) and is from what seemed to be a privileged background, he never lacked humility.  Chalk this one up to temporary tour player insanity.
HP

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 04:26:28 PM »
Pete Alliss has been showing some "Colonel Blimp-ish" tendencies as he has gotten older. (I suppose we all do as we get older! ;)  At times, he almost sounds like a caricature of himself.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Alliss vs. Dougherty
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2008, 04:46:10 PM »
I've always liked Peter Alliss, and it's nice to read the old man in full flight. But geez, it's the old story of the pot calling the kettle black. Nick has a young man's thin skin and Peter has an old man's thin skin. Actually, it's kind of cool to see the generations having at least that in common.

Peter   

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