[Steve_ Shaffer]

Wasn't the Nelson v. Littler Shell's WWG match recently on The Golf Channel? If you didn't see it then, it's available for purchase. Otherwise, come to Philadelphia for the Crump Cup and then visit our other great courses. We'll be glad to take you on a tour.

[Dale_McCallon]

The odds of me ever having the opportunity to play PV are somewhere between slim and none, and while it seems to be the ultimate shrine to golf architecture--I can't imagine thinking the membership "owes" the public anything.  

What other courses "owe" the public?  Seminole?  Fishers?  What about SFGC--they don't even want pictures taken of their course.  Some people join private clubs for privacy--so lets let them have it.

[Glenn Spencer]

Wasn't the Nelson v. Littler Shell's WWG match recently on The Golf Channel? If you didn't see it then, it's available for purchase. Otherwise, come to Philadelphia for the Crump Cup and then visit our other great courses. We'll be glad to take you on a tour.

Sounds great. I would love that, but no PV unless I am playing it. I would like the old tape, but HD would be unreal. It is just not the same on the old telecasts.

[Glenn Spencer]

The odds of me ever having the opportunity to play PV are somewhere between slim and none, and while it seems to be the ultimate shrine to golf architecture--I can't imagine thinking the membership "owes" the public anything.  

What other courses "owe" the public?  Seminole?  Fishers?  What about SFGC--they don't even want pictures taken of their course.  Some people join private clubs for privacy--so lets let them have it.

Pine Valley is different and I am sure you know that.

[Bob_Huntley]

Does anyone know whose production company did the Shell's program? I seemed to think the reincarnation in the 90's was Nicklaus's group. They seemed to do a pretty good job w/ a small team that leapfrogged ahead of each other. It would be interesting to find out the costs associated w/ producing it and if The Golf Channell was interested in playing it. This Big Break stuff is unwatchable!!

I beleive the last SWWG was where Couples & Calcavechia played in Monterey (The Preserve??) where a camera man was killed. I wonder if that had anything to do w/ it's demise.

One last point - Sully - moving some DI back in the Palestra would be SOOO cool. Aren't their still a few games a year played there?

John,

The Preserve is on the Monterey Peninsula, not in Monterey but in Carmel Valley.

Bob

[Dale_McCallon]

Why?  Because they are ranked #1 in the world?

What if they slipped to number 2?  Then does the membership no longer need to cater to the public.  

The odds of me ever having the opportunity to play PV are somewhere between slim and none, and while it seems to be the ultimate shrine to golf architecture--I can't imagine thinking the membership "owes" the public anything.  

What other courses "owe" the public?  Seminole?  Fishers?  What about SFGC--they don't even want pictures taken of their course.  Some people join private clubs for privacy--so lets let them have it.

Pine Valley is different and I am sure you know that.

[Glenn Spencer]

Dale,

Yes. Are they not a USGA club? A course designed by an amateur and it is #1 in the world? You can't compare Pine Valley to San Francisco and Seminole. They are not the same and they never will be. I am asking for a televised tournament or gathering every 30 years or so, unless you know something I don't, this is not a dress rehearsal.

[Jordan Wall]

Glenn,

If you were a member at PV would you want your course publicized?
Exactly.

[Glenn Spencer]

Publicized? A golf tournament every 30 years on TV? It debuted as #1 in 1985 in Golf Digest and has remained there for the most part. I would answer your question, yes. unequivocally. Maybe then, we wouldn't have had to see Pebble ranked #1.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,

If you were a member at PV would you want your course publicized?
Exactly.

Believe what you want, but I doubt they had a party in Clementon when Pine Valley wasn't first anymore.

[Jordan Wall]

Publicized? A golf tournament every 30 years on TV? It debuted as #1 in 1985 in Golf Digest and has remained there for the most part. I would answer your question, yes. unequivocally. Maybe then, we wouldn't have had to see Pebble ranked #1.

Rankings do not define a golf course, Glenn.

I think your fighting a losing battle, at least to the folks of GCA, and even to those who have actually played the course...

[Tim Bert]

I'm just impressed by the lifespan and number of responses this thread has enjoyed.

Are we really pondering this question, or are we just enjoying the process of antagonizing Glenn?  I wasn't even sure if Glenn was really pondering this question or just antagonizing everyone esle, but I suppose he's serious based on his responses.

What have any of us that have no association whatsoever with PV ever done for the club to warrant being owed anything?

[Glenn Spencer]

Publicized? A golf tournament every 30 years on TV? It debuted as #1 in 1985 in Golf Digest and has remained there for the most part. I would answer your question, yes. unequivocally. Maybe then, we wouldn't have had to see Pebble ranked #1.

Rankings do not define a golf course, Glenn.

I think your fighting a losing battle, at least to the folks of GCA, and even to those who have actually played the course...

I am not fighting anything and I don't understand this post.

[Jordan Wall]

Glenn,

PV footage is not going to be aired so stop wasting your time worrying about it.

Sorry, its the truth.

JW

[Glenn Spencer]

I'm just impressed by the lifespan and number of responses this thread has enjoyed.

Are we really pondering this question, or are we just enjoying the process of antagonizing Glenn?  I wasn't even sure if Glenn was really pondering this question or just antagonizing everyone esle, but I suppose he's serious based on his responses.

What have any of us that have no association whatsoever with PV ever done for the club to warrant being owed anything?

Tim,

You might be giving me too much credit. I don't have any ulterior motives. Let's try a different angle for people that can't get past the title of the thread. What was right about 1985, that is not right about 2013?

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,

PV footage is not going to be aired so stop wasting your time worrying about it.

Sorry, its the truth.

JW

You must be smarter than everyone else Jordan, it has already been done.

[SPDB]

What was right about 1985, that is not right about 2013?

Perhaps that the membership was behind it then and are not now. Or more to your original question, do you believe that in 1985 they felt they owed the public something, but feel differently, less altruistic now?  

I fear your serious with this line of inquiry.

[Jim Thompson]

No club owes anyone anything other than its membership.  

The real question here should be whether or not public access is part of a courses greatness.  Isn't or should being available to the golf community be part of a courses level of greatness?

[Glenn Spencer]

I am not saying less altruistic at all. I have no idea why it happened in 1985, but I am saying that there is some logic to think that if it happened once, it could happen again. We are certainly a less exclusive society than we were in 85.

[Glenn Spencer]

No club owes anyone anything other than its membership.  

The real question here should be whether or not public access is part of a courses greatness.  Isn't or should being available to the golf community be part of a courses level of greatness?

Honestly, I had never thought of it that way. I think you have something there and it should.

A club does owe something to people outside of its membership in my opinion and that is the people who play the game and have helped it prosper. Adding cameras to the Crump Cup is not risking danger. I just think it could be done so easily and it has been 20 years and it may be time to take a look at it. Where does the harm lie exactly? The adding of new tees, the timing would be perfect.

[Pat Howard]

I personally don't think Pine Valley, or any other private club for that matter, owes me anything. I say this as a person who is completely enamored and obsessed with every facet of golf and yet may never play one of the greatest courses in the world. I don't think the privacy factor detracts from the club's greatness either. If anything, it adds to the mystique in my mind.

It's ok though, I've played it secretly in my head many times! In fact, I hold the mental course record!


I think it's very nice of the members to open it up for 1 day every year for public viewing. It's 1 more than they have to!

[Chris Kane]

If you were a member at PV would you want your course publicized?
Exactly.

Jordan, of course they want their course publicised - a huge component of the prestige of the club comes from the #1 ranking.  Membership at Pine Valley wouldn't have 1/10th the snob value if the course was a Doak 4.

[Chris Kane]

I think the tone of the initial post is a little wrong, but I actually agree with the general premise of the thread.  

There is an underlying frustration on this forum with the architectural preferences of "Joe Sixpack", who gets most of his ideas from television etc.  If the great courses of the world were shown more regularly, would the golfing public demand different things in new golf courses?

I don't think Pine Valley "owes" us anything - it is their course afterall - but televising an event played there would be a great way to expose the masses to great golf architecture.  The argument that "many people are playing there already" doesn't wash with me - the majority of golfers will never play there in their lifetimes.

It is a contribution to the game Pine Valley could make, but I don't think we should think any less of them for choosing not to.

[Jim Nugent]

Pine Valley does not owe us anything.  A televised event there would be real cool for the people who never have seen it and never will.  But PV has no debt or obligation to anyone, except what its members agree on.  

[Mike_Sweeney]

Pine Valley is the king, I just don't see how a few cameras at the Crump would bother anybody. Webcast? Donate the profits? Stick something on 5,10 and 14 for all I care.

Glenn,

If you were King, would you want the production crew to be from Youtube or NBC Sports? Please look at the bigger picture. If PV just "does something", you may be satisfied, but then they will get railed by TV critics, golf columnist:

Why did they not show all the holes?
Why did they not have aerials or blimps?
I could not even see the greens.

When you are number 1, you can't win no matter what you do. As Tom Paul mentioned above, they had problems when they put on the completely selfless 9/11 event. I would estimate that in the modern era of TV production, 75+ cameras often with towers would be needed, thousands of miles of cable. How many people would watch The Crump Cup, other than the 1500 here?

It is my impression that modern courses pay to be on Shell's Wonderful World of Golf.

Oh yea, it is a Men's Club, so friends like Martha Burke show up to get on TV that weekend too.

PV is not the problem, we the general public and media are the problem. It would be easier if you practice a little more, take a few lessons and ask Tom Paul to put in a good word to The Crump Cup committee.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()