News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Glenn Spencer

Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« on: November 08, 2006, 03:30:44 PM »
1985 seems like a long time ago, in fact it is a long time ago. My generation has never had the chance to see this course on television. Do they 'owe' us a Shell's or a Walker Cup after Merion? Could the golf channel pick up Sunday at the Crump Cup? How about a Curtis Cup? It seems that every other great course has been seen on television, why not this one? Yeah, I know, membership doesn't want it, but there has to be a line somewhere. I think now that it has been 20 years, it is about time they give us all a present again and show an event of some kind. The Crump seems to make the most sense.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2006, 03:36:16 PM »
When was the last time Cypress Point was on TV?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2006, 03:36:46 PM »
90?

Jordan Wall

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2006, 03:50:35 PM »
Glenn,

Obviously I have never played PV, so I am no genius about the course, but from the people that have played there and told me about it, I would think we owe PV something.

I have heard it is one of the greatest designs in the world.
I have heard that many courses today have followed some of the same design principles as PV.
PV has taught us a lot about how courses today are designed, from what I hear...

Hopefully someone I have heard from will validae these statements.

But, I am not sure PV really owes us anything.

JW
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 03:52:42 PM by Jordan Wall »

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2006, 03:54:04 PM »
Jordan,

I would think that everything that you said, only strengthens what I am saying. Everyone loves it and learns from it, so why not be on television once every 20 years? We have been patient since the Walker Cup, but it is now time.

Jordan Wall

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2006, 03:59:52 PM »
Why?

Why not wait and really see the course for the first time you play it?

It will just make the experience all the better.

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2006, 04:04:25 PM »
Why? Because it is the #1 golf course in the world and there are millions of people that would like to see it, that aren't ever going to sniff playing it, myself most likely included. The option you are supplying is one that is good for about a thousand people a year at the most, I would guess. Also, I disagree with you, seeing it on television and then playing it would actually be my preferred way of doing it.

Jordan Wall

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2006, 04:09:34 PM »
I dont feel like ranting about a course I have never played, but just think about it this way.

First, have some patience.  I'm sure an oppurtunity will someday present itself for you to play.
 :)

If Pine Valley had wanted their course to be on TV again, you would have already seen it aired.

It is a very private course, and they want it to stay that way.
They dont want regular golfers to see the course.
They will not understand the greatness of the course.
An average golfer will look at aesthetics more than say, greens, or bunker placement, or strategy.
If that is what PV is about, strategy, then average golfers will be missing the point of the course's greatness.




Mike_Cirba

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2006, 04:13:33 PM »
Glenn,

Come out to the Crump Cup next year.  It's a real treat, and for a student of golf course architecture, you'll never get a better opportunity to really walk around and study the course.


JeffTodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2006, 04:13:42 PM »
Jordan, regular golfers can see the course, and they appreciate it as well. Even a non-golfer can be blown away by Pine Valley; there is something there for everyone to appreciate.

As you probably know, once a year the membership opens their doors and allows any and all manner of people unfettered access to every acre of the course with only the greens being off limits. In return they ask for nothing except for a nominal fee to cover parking and a bus ride, all of which winds up going to the local Little League. With no ropes and few rules to restrict the spectators, one can easily find themselves standing alone with an entire hole to themselves, providing the opportunity to study the features of the course at their leisure. For one afternoon a year anyone can study every inch of Pine Valley, on their hands and knees if they choose. That is a gift that is much richer than a few hours on The Golf Channel could ever provide. I don't know of any other course that allows this kind of interaction with the public.

Glenn, I recognize that for many a trip to the Crump Cup would require a great deal of travel and that you'd like to see the course from the comfort of your home. That is understandable, but certainly not owed to us. (BTW, the trip would be worth it, the golf course is jaw dropping). I don't think we're owed the Crump Cup access, but I'm grateful that it is available. As for television, I am certain that it is not owed to us. Not to mention, I think the dearth of coverage only adds to the mystique of the place.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 04:15:49 PM by JeffTodd »

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2006, 04:21:51 PM »
Glenn,

Come out to the Crump Cup next year.  It's a real treat, and for a student of golf course architecture, you'll never get a better opportunity to really walk around and study the course.



Mike,

A very quality suggestion to say the least. I appreciate it and I have thought about it many times, but I don't think I could handle it. For an analogy, Let's just say that I am not real big on strip clubs.

Dean Paolucci

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2006, 04:24:41 PM »
Glenn - I have to disagree, PVGC does not owe anyone anything other than their membership however, they are all about contributions to the game of golf.  Accordingly, it would be great if they did allow the kind of TV access you have discussed.  I am not sure but, I think they do allow spectators on the course for the Crump Cup and other GAP events (Philly Amateur?).  That maybe your opportunity to see the course.  Can Mr. Paul or any members of the GAP confirm that?  Having seen the course first hand I will attest that it is worth seeking an alternate route for access.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  --  Mark Twain

Tom Huckaby

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2006, 04:25:18 PM »
Glenn - let me just say I get what you mean perfectly and that's a great analogy.

I truly do think walking around Pine Valley and NOT playing would be a certain form of hell.  I know many here do enjoy the study, and that's great... But let me just say I am with you on this, brother.

That being said, while it would be cool to see Pine Valley on TV, I assume you're being tongue in cheek saying they owe us anything.   ;)

Mike_Cirba

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2006, 04:30:29 PM »
Mike,

A very quality suggestion to say the least. I appreciate it and I have thought about it many times, but I don't think I could handle it. For an analogy, Let's just say that I am not real big on strip clubs.

Glenn,

To continue the analogy, you don't visit strip clubs, but you want to see it on video?  ;D

Tom Huckaby

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2006, 04:34:28 PM »
Mike - weirdly enough I get that.  On TV or video, there is no expectation of action.  Somehow being in the presence of the object of affection causes a frustration when consummation cannot be had.

Can I possibly state that more obtusely or weirdly?

 ;D

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2006, 04:35:17 PM »
Glenn - let me just say I get what you mean perfectly and that's a great analogy.

I truly do think walking around Pine Valley and NOT playing would be a certain form of hell.  I know many here do enjoy the study, and that's great... But let me just say I am with you on this, brother.

That being said, while it would be cool to see Pine Valley on TV, I assume you're being tongue in cheek saying they owe us anything.   ;)

Of Course, but only about 98%, I do think there is some degree of debt, when you have something that is that special. Is there another situation in sports that is similar that I am not thinking of at this moment?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 04:38:30 PM by Glenn Spencer »

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2006, 04:36:26 PM »
Mike,

A very quality suggestion to say the least. I appreciate it and I have thought about it many times, but I don't think I could handle it. For an analogy, Let's just say that I am not real big on strip clubs.

Glenn,

To continue the analogy, you don't visit strip clubs, but you want to see it on video?  ;D

The computer is also fine. ;D  You are too much, man.

Dean Paolucci

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2006, 04:36:29 PM »
Mike,

A very quality suggestion to say the least. I appreciate it and I have thought about it many times, but I don't think I could handle it. For an analogy, Let's just say that I am not real big on strip clubs.

Glenn,

To continue the analogy, you don't visit strip clubs, but you want to see it on video?  ;D

Brilliant!!!!
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  --  Mark Twain

Mike_Cirba

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2006, 04:36:31 PM »
Mike - weirdly enough I get that.  On TV or video, there is no expectation of action.  Somehow being in the presence of the object of affection causes a frustration when consummation cannot be had.

Can I possibly state that more obtusely or weirdly?

 ;D

Tom,

No, but I know exactly what you mean, strangely enough.  ;D

I also don't want to know what's in your your secret stash, nor Glenn's as well!  ;)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 04:39:48 PM by Mike Cirba »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2006, 04:39:44 PM »
Tom,

No, but I know exactly what you mean, strangely enough.  ;D

I also don't want to see your secret stash, nor Glenn's as well!  ;)

 ;D  If only I had such a thing.  But this does give me a fine idea...  ;D

Tom Huckaby

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2006, 04:41:48 PM »
Glenn - the "debt" question is interesting.  I can understand the logic of not keeping world treasures hidden from the public, and Pine Valley certainly is a world treasure.  So that 98% works for me also.

I can't think of another similar situation in sports... but it would be like allowing the great Thierry Henry to only play in closed practices.  That has meaning if you're into soccer.   ;D

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2006, 04:43:12 PM »
Mike - weirdly enough I get that.  On TV or video, there is no expectation of action.  Somehow being in the presence of the object of affection causes a frustration when consummation cannot be had.

Can I possibly state that more obtusely or weirdly?

 ;D

Couldn't be more succinct.

Glenn Spencer

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2006, 04:45:40 PM »
Glenn - the "debt" question is interesting.  I can understand the logic of not keeping world treasures hidden from the public, and Pine Valley certainly is a world treasure.  So that 98% works for me also.

I can't think of another similar situation in sports... but it would be like allowing the great Thierry Henry to only play in closed practices.  That has meaning if you're into soccer.   ;D

I didn't know him until now, but that is another very good analogy. I guess, I just don't get the big deal. Does anyone have any information about the fallout from the 85 Walker Cup? Did the members detest it? Was it a rousing success? DId they say 'Never Again?'

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2006, 04:48:10 PM »
Huckster,

From post #1 on this I thought, hell no PV does not anyone anything. But I did think the college basketball world does owe us a return to The Palestra.

For those not aware, The Palestra is a legendary basketball arena on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Does Pine Valley Owe Us?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2006, 04:51:53 PM »
Sully - well said - and right on re the Palestra.  Never been there in person, but I have seen on TV.  Long live the Big Five!


Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back