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Dan Herrmann

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2006, 11:01:40 AM »
As far as the mountain goes, one of the most memorable shots was getting up onto 9 green from a grass area within a bunker on the left-hand side.  Into a stiff wind.

Put it on the green and made par.

000000000000

And the tee shot on 13...  Amazing.  Doug told us that there was a lot of room to the right, so I hit it as far as I could with a cut.  I thought I was OB from the tee, and Doug said not to worry.  Got to my ball and was rewarded with a great shot to the lay-up area.

Angles, elevation challenges, perfectly placed bunkers, wonderful green surfaces...  Wow...

I want to move to Charleston  ;)

Bryce Mueller

Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2006, 12:20:45 PM »
Dan,
did you try and go for it on 13? i love the risk reward possibilities of each shot on that hole.

Jay Flemma

Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2006, 02:34:45 PM »
Yes, I too love Bulls Bay with all my golf soul.  What a great club with the nicest people for members and the a most cunning and interesting golf course.  Mike was inspired...it was his home.

Dick, thanks for sharing your photo of the portrait.  That's Mike, his horse, Degas (pronounced like Vegas), and from left to right Sophie and Greta the Golden Retrievers.  (Sophie's hair is so short, she almost resembles a lab, but she's a GR:)

Mike and Heidi would be deeply moved by your kind thoughts here.

Also, Mike Whitaker was a marvelous host, organizer and compatriot.  Thank you Mike for a world class tournament.

Everyone should come to the Dixie Cup - its a fantastic event.

I missed my par putt on 13, but made par on 14.

Dan Herrmann

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2006, 06:22:05 PM »
Jay,
Thanks too to you for sharing your passion for Mr. Strantz.  You really helped make the trip special for all of us.

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2006, 08:25:44 PM »
Well hopefully everyone has arrived back safe and sound from the Dixie Cup by now (with the possible exception of Dave Mulle who may be drowned if he actually tried to play on Tuesday at Kiawah based on how hard it rained.)

Anyway here are some pics from my camera.


My group at Bulls Bay.  Myself, Dave Mulle, and Craig Disher.



Sweet Move by Dave Mulle at the Fourth.



Craig on the Fifth tee.



Craig in the Waste Area at the Fifth.  Nice Shot!



Our threesome does some charity work posing with some lost soul from Wisconsin at the Tenth tee.



The Par 3 12th.


More to follow in the next post.....
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 08:37:01 PM by Turboe »
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Tim Gavrich

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2006, 08:40:59 PM »
Jamey--

Thanks for the description.  

My family vacations at Pawleys Plantation, about 55 minutes north on 17, and we always remark the understated sign (just the bull skull; similar to TR's symbol, a great touch) whenever we drive down to Charleston.  We even drove up the entrance road once, just to have a look around, and perhaps snag a scorecard.  A friendly bagroom guy let me help myself to a couple scorecards, which was good to see, especially since I was only 12 or 13 (it was at a time early on when a couple greens were not doing well).

I am intrigued by the aerial view of the par five preceding the par three along the entrance road (13, is it?).  It seems as though the dogleg comes very late and seems to preclude a try at reaching in two.  Is the vegetation to the right of the fairway and stream low enough to fly a 3 wood over, or is it a three-shot hole?

Dan Callahan--

I've never had the pleasure of playing Stonehouse or Royal New Kent (only a scorecard-retrieval excursion to each when I've been in the area).  It's good to know that all these Strantz courses allow for some spectating on the closing holes.  Shows an uncommon level of thoughtfulness.  Shows why Strantz was indeed a genius.

The one fault I find in his work that I have sampled is how watered-down True Blue was after the initial blood-letting that the golf course exacted on its first customers.  Today it's quite an easy golf course from tee to green (I've never had an easier time hitting 12/13 fairways and 16/18 greens).  That isn't to say it isn't great fun, but I'd love to see some of the original features restored, if only halfway back to the original.  I think it would pull the quality of TB up closer to that of Caledonia.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 08:41:38 PM by Tim Gavrich »
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Tim Gavrich

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2006, 08:43:28 PM »
Wow, from the picture, #12 at BB seems to resemble very closely #3 at TB.  Was this Strantz's way of exacting revenge on the administration at True Blue for watering down his original work without consulting him?  It looks similar to my vision of the original 3rd at TB...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 08:45:06 PM by Tim Gavrich »
Senior Writer, GolfPass

RJ_Daley

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2006, 09:08:44 PM »
Tim, the 13th is indeed what many call the Mike Strantz question mark par 5.  There are 2 interesting ?s at BB.  #2 is the other, and bends in opposite direction to 13.  

Can I get some love for #11?  What is it?  A triple roller, faux biarritzishlike thingy?  

Our host had the distance to go for the drive cutting off big chunk of water to attempt front of green.  He came up short and only hit his tee ball what I figured was about 300.  He then proceded to use a wedge to scoop up about 18 balls from the reeds right next to the shore.  



in front


front left


left side above
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 09:10:00 PM by RJ_Daley »
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Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2006, 09:39:53 PM »
Lets start this installment of Bulls Bay Pics with a little bit of instruction.  In the following two frames Dave shows how to go about hitting a shot from about 1" of water and mud without getting any on your nice outfit.


First take your stance in a fairly traditional manner

Prepare to make the swing.....


Now here comes the important part to avoid any soiling of your pants.  Make sure that somewhere around the time you start the downswing you spin your front side completely out of the way to avoid any splatter.

The key to executing this shot properly is to make sure that your right back pocket is pointing at your target after impact.


You might ask yourself why would you attempt this shot.  Why not just take the penalty and drop the ball back a little ways.  Well Dave's buddy shown here...

was hanging out in the same hazard the ball was in only a little further back down the fairway.  Not only motivating him not to take a drop back there, but also I think speeding up how quickly Dave played the shot from the hazard.  Nice work!!!!!



Dave's approach on the home hole.



Note how far to the right of the target Jamey Bryan played this shot.  It bounced off the backslope perfectly and rolled out to about 3 ft.


The completion of Jamey's nice up and down from that shot.  Note the ball toppling over the lip into the hole.



Jerry Brenner putting out on the 18th.


Our gracious host Mike Whittaker putting out.  What a great venue for watching the finishing groups on the 18th from the balcony of the clubhouse.


Randy McArthur putting out.

More pics to come in the next post......
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 10:55:03 PM by Turboe »
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"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

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Andy Hughes

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2006, 09:55:36 PM »
Quote
Wow, from the picture, #12 at BB seems to resemble very closely #3 at TB.  

Tim, I think that's exactly right--I hd the same thought.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Tom_Doak

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2006, 10:03:28 PM »
It is a fascinatingly different-looking course, particularly in plan view.  It took me a while to even find all 18 holes!  I look forward to seeing it in person sometime.

All of Mike's work seems to be designed at a different scale than most other golf architecture.  But, I do wonder if that scale will put his courses out of consideration as "great" by some people ... the width of fairways and the size of greens is in marked contrast to the courses ranked in the top 30 today.  That will appeal to a lot of people, but some people will really dislike it.  And from the two conversations I had with Mike Strantz, I am sure he would be okay with that, whether the course is ranked in the top 30 or not.

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2006, 10:14:05 PM »
Now to the after golf festivities:


My best effort at identification.  Clockwise from myself looking over my shoulder in front.  Randy McArthur, Doug Carnes (member of Bulls Bay), I need some help with this next gentleman, Mike Christensen of Atlanta, Jason Mandel of Philly, Dan and Laura Hermann of Philly, standing Jamey Bryan of Camden SC, David Mulle, of NY, NY, and Dick Daley hang out in the comfortable bar area overlooking 18.



Mike Whittaker thanks Mike and Jason for their monetary contributions the night before at game night at the Whittaker house.



The Wisconsin Mafia L-R Dick, Jerry, & Randy.



From the balcony, the 10th fairway on the left and the 15th fairway on the right side.


Looking down on the 18th hole.


A group on the 18th tee, the 7th green beyond that bulkheaded in behind the water hazard, and looking out over the lowcountry the Wild Dunes watertower (I think) on the horizon.


A great day was had by all.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2006, 10:15:21 PM by Turboe »
Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Tom_Doak

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2006, 10:21:27 PM »
Now that I know which hole is which, I have a question:  why wouldn't a strong player on the 18th drive into the ninth fairway?  The hole looks perhaps 40 yards shorter that way.  That's the main reason I shy away from having very many dogleg holes on open sites.

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2006, 10:31:11 PM »
Tom,

The main reason I could think is that from the 18th tee (especially the back couple) the carry to the meat of the 9th fairway I think would be much tougher than the shot to the meat of the correct fairway.  

Also once you got to the 9th fairway you would probably have a completly blind shot to the 18th green as both greens are set back into natural amphitheater hollows into the hillside.  So you definitely would be approaching the 18th green from way left of the opening into the green and have to carry it all the way over the large ridge separating the two greens.  I could be wrong, because I didnt specifically look at the option when I was there on the ground, but putting together the mental pieces from several trips around the course coupled with the aerial photo on page one, those are my quick thoughts as to why that might not work.

Besides neither of the holes are that long that you have to cheat the corner like that, you can just challenge the angles in your own fairway.
Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

RJ_Daley

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2006, 10:35:34 PM »
Thanks Daryl, we can always count on you for some great pix.  Pricesless on Mulle's waterballet.

Tom D., it looks good in theroy about playing up 9 from 18tee, but the shot over the waste-rough area up and into a blind punchbowl like setting would be undesirable to say the least.  Well, some cats would relish it, but low %.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

paul cowley

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2006, 10:38:20 PM »
Yo Turboe!
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2006, 10:46:23 PM »
Yo Turboe!

Hey Paul, long time no talk.  You coming up this way ever anymore?  Are you guys doing anything at Stoney Point for Grand Harbor?

I probably am about due for some southern GA trips since its getting a little cool up here.
Instagram: @thequestfor3000

"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

RJ_Daley

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Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2006, 12:39:12 AM »
Tom D says
Quote
All of Mike's work seems to be designed at a different scale than most other golf architecture.

Along that same line of thought some comments.  I got to 10 tee and our host told us that the new tee set back was response to the college toon-a-mint they had where the kids were driving and 7 iron to that par 5.  I looked from the regular tees and it looked like a 1000 yards! :o  I did hit a nice tee ball, nice second, on easily in 3 and two putted for par.  
But, when we got to 15, I had a nice tee ball to the point in rough FW fringe you see above the trees:

Then, our host comes up to me in cart, shoots a range finder up to 10 green, which I was disoriented and took my cue that that was the green, having only played it minutes prior and not recognizing it.  he said it was 178.  I said, "no way" but then thought maybe I was again deceived like thinking this very same green was 1000 yards from up top.  So not believing 178 and thnking way over 210, I compromised and pulled 4wood and hit one in the left throat of 10 green.  Then the laughing started.  I realised what I did, so engrossed in my own game, I hadn't noted the others already hit to the proper green which tucks in to right behind that tree near the lake and waste area upper right of pic that can be seen in the pic above.  

When I got done laughing and peeing my pants, I had to go sheepishly up to the middle of a tight group of the 4 balls the actual players on 10 had hit right within the left front of that green where my ball made 5 and really had everybody wondering what they hell.  I said, "sorry" and picked up my ball.  I did hit a free drop ball to the correct green eventually.  

But, if you look at the picture, I hope you can tell how I was tricked. ;D
« Last Edit: November 09, 2006, 12:41:02 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jay Flemma

Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2006, 01:02:20 AM »
Tom:

Re:  18...No...its too far off line to 9 fwy and offers a semi blind shot to a heavily canted green...the good player is already playing it at 464 wayyyyyyyy uphill.  The play is to the fat part of the fairway...plus the lie if you miss the ninth is choppy, uneven and risky.

FWIW, 9 is a great hole too!

To the Hermanns:  You were just the nicest people, so optimistic, lively and vibrant.  You two are perfect together!...in fact everyone was super.

I played with Mike Christiansen and Jason M and we were spellbound the whole day.  Cant wait to play with them again.

Go ahead, call me sentimental, but I spent 10 minutes alone looking at the pic of Mike and saying a prayer for him and his family and friends.  The club is almost an extension of him and his legacy.  Its a place where he is revered and celebrated.  His touch is everywhere from the logos to the hats (where he designed the back to be the back end of the bull with its tail swishing and the cheeky greeting !adios! TO THE GRAND SWEEP OF THE FAIRWAYS AND THE BOLD APPROACHES TO 9 AND 18.

I shed a tear on 11 fairway, sent some thoughts his way coming up 18 and shared the experience with the wonderful, down to earth members.  

I'll post pix tomorrow.

Bulls bay - one of the most adventurous and exciting courses you will ever play...and the history of Mike is the lynchpin cementing the experience.  Several people have shrines to him in their homes!

Bryce Mueller

Re:Strantz was a genius. Bulls Bay is world class.
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2006, 12:10:42 PM »
tom,
there isn't really a point to drive in the other fairway, because the landing areas are so generous. It's actually my only problem with the course, its sooo wide open off the tee that you can actually hit driver almost  every hole. I don't know if those that played it in the Dixie notice that, but i played with one of the creators of the club, and he was FURIOUS at how you could make that course pitch and putt through hitting driver everywhere...

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