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Jordan Wall

Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« on: November 11, 2006, 03:23:03 PM »
Are there any holes that have hazards that seem weird, or greens that just dont make sense at first..?..but, then after playing the hole a few times, everything just seems to make sense?

Are there any instances where a bunker is placed and one cannot figure out why it was put where it was, yet after a couple of times it just kind of clicks in your brain why it is put there?

Is this a good design feature, making a hole seem hard to understand until you have played it a few times?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 03:23:25 PM by Jordan Wall »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2006, 03:40:17 PM »
Jordan:

I will say that of the courses by various architects which I have played, the bunkers on Simpson's courses are the most counter-intuitive to me -- I often have to think in depth about why he put a bunker in some particular spot.  Which is cool, and increasingly rare in other designers' work.  Even cooler -- he only put one or two fairway bunkers on many holes AND they are in unusual places.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2006, 09:47:11 PM »
Tom,
Would you share a few examples for us who have not yet enjoyed his work.
When ever I try to read the Architectural side of golf, I always wind up staring at the drawings.
Thank you.
Mike
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 12:01:02 AM »
Lawsonia's 8th, a great example of the use of visual deception to create contradictory assessments about how to play the hole. It's a shortish par 4, with a semi-blind tee shot, but with a green and often the flag visible from the tee. On the tee, the play looks like it would be an easy straight shot right at the green, but that will leave the ball in (usually) unforgiving native plants, and an approach over a gaping bunker to one of the course's smaller greens. (The topography of the hole doesn't allow you to see that a straight-at-the-green tee shot is straight into the rough.)

The (I thought) correct line of play was to play a little cut over a fairway bunker -- an easy carry from the tee -- because visually the hole appears (somewhat) to gently dogleg to the right. But this still leaves a fairly tricky approach shot, with bunkers frontish, right and left in play and visible.

Playing with GCA poster Mike McGuire (who showed the way), the correct play is to bomb it left of center, which shoots the tee shot down a small hill and sets up an approach shot that is straight at the green, with no bunkers fronting the green. The hole really doesn't dogleg, after all; it goes straight for most of its yardage, and then abruptly turns right with its heavily bunkered green complex. To take advantage of this abrupt right turn of the hole, the best play is to move your tee shot as far left within reason as possible. There is a ton of room long and left on this hole, and none of it is visible from the tee. A wonderful little hole, and one of the best uses of the lay of the land at Lawsonia to create strategic intrigue by Langford/Moreau.

Jordan Wall

Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 08:31:46 PM »
Bump

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 10:04:38 AM »
I feel that this is the mark of good design.  So many of our golden age courses in the Boston area, many by Donald Ross, are defended by the use of visually awkward features.

I don't mean that the features do not fit the land, as most if not all do, but they are awkward to the first look of the player.  Through multiple plays, advice, and thought, one usually comes to the conclusion that the feature is not awkward at all.

This happens many times at Essex County Club  (which I played yesterday), Charles River, Brae Burn, and the best example of this I've seen in the last few years was the Balsams in Northern NH.  There isn't a single green on that course that "looks" easy to hit from the fairway, but you have to realize they aren't as sloped as they look, and one just has to miss on the correct side if they are...
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

TEPaul

Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2006, 12:37:58 PM »
Yes, it's one of those bunkers fronting NGLA's great Bottle Hole--#8's green.

The left side of that bunker seemed just remarkably steep and deep and I could never figure out exactly why that was until one very long time member not only explained to me why it was that way but he actually demonstrated why it was that way for me.

He dropped a ball into the left side of that bunker in a position where no golfer could possibly stand or even kneel, then proceeded to take some club, get down flat on his stomach and attempt to hit the ball out of the bunker and onto the green.

That's when it finally clicked!! Do I need to go on?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 12:39:35 PM by TEPaul »

Doug Ralston

Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2006, 01:19:31 PM »
I know that at 'My Old Kentucky Home' State Park; they play 'My Old Kentucky Home' with church bells for hours on end. Only three of the holes is that an annoyance, but it is a source of much hilarity.  :D

After a while, you begin to realize that you will never get used to that ..... just away from it *snicker*

Is that what you mean?

Doug

Jordan Wall

Re:Are there any holes where things finally just 'click'?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2006, 03:29:04 PM »
This post is more for Dougs sake than anything ;)

Doug, that is kind of what I mean.
I was shooting more for actual hazards on the course, that you fnally understand them after a few times playing the hole/course.

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