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Aaron Katz

What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« on: October 30, 2006, 10:42:26 AM »
I was doing a bit of Arizona golf research this weekend.  I took a look at pictures and reviews of everything from Desert Forest (what many call the first desert course) to the newest Scottsdale clubs like Whisper Rock and Silverleaf.  I have to say, I was a bit underwhelmed by the photos of Desert Forest, though perhaps I'd feel different in person.  Overall, the pictures I saw made it seem as though the newer desert courses (or the good ones at least) are uniformly better than their predecessors (they seem more dramatic and romantic, and in many ways more strategic due to increased width).  That is something that definitely can't be said about true links courses (though this might be because the best links sites were taken long ago), and almost certainly not about parkland, forestland, or heathland courses.

This leads me to my question:  What types of courses are being designed better these days than in the past, as a result of either better building technology, improvement in the artists, or both?  

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2006, 11:07:33 AM »
Aaron,

Your analysis that the current desert courses offer increased strategic options purely because they offer more width seems flawed to me. That trap seems to catch many on this board. I have very little experience in the desert but would suggest that newer course benefit from more economic construction and maintenance processes or deeper pockets. This enables them to provide wider playing corridors for better playability (read: more room for error for their target audience). Could that be?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2006, 11:19:37 AM »
Aaron, You assertion that DF is less than it's contemporaries is also flawed. In person, you would see it completely different.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Aaron Katz

Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2006, 11:39:21 AM »
Indeed, I wouldn't be at all surprised if I was wowed by Desert Forest in person.  That said, I really wonder what type of reception it would get if built today.  Certainly it would be a good course, but would it get a "best new" by Golf Digest (if that means anything anyways)?  I'd love to hear more about why Desert Forest is still thought by many to be the ultimate desert course.

I'm a native Arizonan, so I've seen how desert golf courses have changed even in the past 20 years.  The best courses being built today are definitely more strategic.  They are wider, but it's more than that.  If done properly, the fairways are set at angles, or have bunkers dotting the middle of them, that give the player the ability to choose his line of play.  The older desert courses usually gave two options -- lay back with an iron, or try to hit a driver in a 20 yard wide area ringed by unplayable desert.  

Are the older desert layouts much more natural?  Yes! But it seems like the newer ones have an additional dimension that the older ones don't have.  I'll throw out a couple of examples -- Stone Canyon and The Gallery, which are both just outside of Tucson.  I think these two courses are heads and shoulders above the previous "best in Tucson" Ventana Canyon and La Paloma (Fazio and Nicklaus, respectively), and mostly because they were able to lay down more turf (at least in my opinion).  At the very least, I think one could argue that the evolution of desert courses has been for the better in the last 10 years or so.

I don't think the same could be said of most types of courses, and I think that this is interesting.  

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 11:39:37 AM »
Aaron,

Not familiar with DF, so I won't comment.

In general, I think the lower end of the spectrum, i.e. the muni course is being built much better and to higher standards than ever before. Its because of the economics of construction and maintenance, and the fact that many talented but lesser known gca's have these types of courses as clients, and simply aren't going to lay down and give them an inferior product just because its not the high end of the makret.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2006, 11:48:54 AM »
Aaron, If it's ten years we are talking about, I'd say the entire gambit of courses have improved. Not just Desert courses.

Thanks in part to one of golf's most beloved figure.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Aaron Katz

Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 12:22:03 PM »
Touche, Adam!  


Patrick_Mucci

Re:What types of courses have gotten better architecturally
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2006, 07:03:38 PM »
Aaron,

Why not amend your thread to "WHAT" courses have gotten better architecturally over the years ?

I think that would provide for interesting discussions.

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