[Mitch Hantman]

National's #2 is a classic blind hole.  I am a definite fan of the blind hole, because of the great anticipation the player feels as he walks to the top of the hill, wondering if the shot came off as well as he thought.  Of course, it is diminished if using an electric cart!

[Dan King]

Jim H writes:
But I can't think of any blind shots to the green that don't make the hole unfair and somewhat silly.

To each his own. I love silly and unfair. I'll never understand people who like their golf fair.

Many of my favorite blind holes have already been mentioned, but I'll mention Rananchan (No. 9) at Machrihanish, which features a blind drive, rather than approach. The drive is blind over a dune, with the fairway running parallel to the tee shot. Cut off as much as you dare, or you could try and place your drive to a certain spot in hopes of catching a hill that will shoot the ball 40-50 yards further down the fairway. Most people will play Machrihanish at least two or three times a day, and it is too much fun trying to hit a specific spot, and rushing over the dune to see if you managed. The penalty for missing isn't too severe, but the payoff is grand.

Dan King

Golf is the cruelest of sports. Like life, it's unfair. It's a harlot. A trollop. It leads you on. It never lives up to it's promises. . . It's a boulevard of broken dreams. It plays with men. And runs off with the butcher.
 --Jim Murray

[Gene Greco]

#3 at NGLA has not only got to be the greatest blind hole in the world but may the greatest period.

[Dan Kelly]

Having played it only once, I don't know if I think it's a great hole, a good hole, a middling hole, or a bad hole -- but the blindest hole I've ever played was a par-3 at North Berwick. Front nine, if I'm remembering right. If I remember right, there was a rock on the hillside or something.

And how about the original Redan, at North Berwick?

Is that consided a "blind hole"?

[billb]

Evan:
Great pictures of Cruden Bay! Only one problem, this picture:

15th hole green looking back towards tee


is not 15 green, it is 16 green, or at least I am pretty sure it is! My first clue was that there is no road to the golfers right of the green in the picture, I know there is one on 15 because I ricocheted a two iron off a railroad tie to 3 feet   .  Also, looking back toward the tee you can see a tee box at the base of the hill.

BB

[michael_j_fay]

I will not argue wth any of the posts on this subject, but I will add a little par three at Maidstone to the list. I don't know the hole # but I remember it to be a beauty.

Where did the photographer at Cruden Bay find so much sunlight?

[Michael Dugger]

I'd like to add the tee shot on #9 Pacific Dunes.  You just don't really have any idea what you are doing.  I wish there was a picture of it floating around.

Also

I'd like to add, in reference to the blind shot controversy, I think it was Pete Dye who said that a blind hole is only blind the first time you play it.

Doesn't Tobacco Row have some blind holes??  

[SPDB]

I will not argue wth any of the posts on this subject, but I will add a little par three at Maidstone to the list. I don't know the hole # but I remember it to be a beauty.

#8 i presume. But, Michael, what about the 12th at Misquamicut. It is far more blind than Maidstone 8. Although the greensite is sort of blah, you can't beat the scenery from that tee hard against the Atlantic.

[Darren_Kilfara]

Dan King - you know, in thinking about this thread I never would have considered #9 at Machrihanish, and this coming from a guy who plays all of his golf there at the moment! I don't think the drive is as strategic as you're making it out to be...the fairway is not parallel to the tee shot, but rather at more like a 30 degree angle to the drive. And there's not much of a penalty for missing the fairway as long as you don't miss right and give yourself a blind second shot as well. Machrihanish has a few neat blind shots on it, but I wouldn't call this among the best. (Having said that, I'm glad you liked it!) The second shot at the 7th takes some hitting...

Another hole in this part of the world I'd nominate is the 18th at the Machrie, on Islay. The whole course is full of blind shots, but the last one is an inspiring way to finish.

Bill's right: the final picture of Cruden Bay is definitely of the 16th, not the 15th. I wouldn't nominate the 15th as a great blind hole, myself - the green is very flat and large, and there's not much of a penalty for missing it. (Just because the blindness of the hole is generated by a huge dune ridge doesn't make it a great hole, in my opinion.)

Jim H. - funnily enough, I prefer a blind approach to a blind tee shot, mainly because if you get your line wrong on the approach, it usually just means a pitch from around the green, whereas if you screw up the tee shot, it can lead to lost balls and irritation for the length of the entire hole.

Thanks for everyone's responses so far - they've been interesting. Keep 'em coming!

Cheers,
Darren

[billb]

Darren:
You play all of your golf at Macrahanish??? I didn't know the Internet had reached the Mull of Kintyre yet!
BB

[Tom_Doak]

Actually, Pete Dye used to quote Tommy Armour with that quote about blind holes.

If a hole with a blind tee shot counts, I'd vote for the fourth at Royal Melbourne (West), followed closely by the eighth at Pebble and the ninth at Royal County Down.

If a blind green is required, the Dell at Lahinch is my own favorite.

[Doug Wright]

Correct Tom--it was Tommy Armour.

All The Best,

[Dan King]

Darren_Kilfara writes:
Dan King - you know, in thinking about this thread I never would have considered #9 at Machrihanish, and this coming from a guy who plays all of his golf there at the moment! I don't think the drive is as strategic as you're making it out to be...the fairway is not parallel to the tee shot, but rather at more like a 30 degree angle to the drive. And there's not much of a penalty for missing the fairway as long as you don't miss right and give yourself a blind second shot as well. Machrihanish has a few neat blind shots on it, but I wouldn't call this among the best. (Having said that, I'm glad you liked it!) The second shot at the 7th takes some hitting...

My first time going to Machrihanish, I don't remember thinking this hole was any great shakes. But last time I was there, I played the course like 20 times in a week. One of the times I hit the side of the mound on the far side of the fairway, and the ball shot forward to just in front of the green. I thought that was so cool I kept trying to hit it just like that. I was successful about one out of four times.

And that was part of the attraction to me, if you missed, you still had a decent shot to the green, perhaps not a very level lie, but still just a short iron. This is one of the things I really liked about this blind shot. Crossing the dunes, I was always anxious to see if I had managed to hit that spot. I wasn't worried, just excited. I thought that was a really nice feature of blindness.

Perhaps it was a seasonal thing, perhaps it was dryer that season than usual. Unfortunately I haven't been back since.

I liked Brauch More. Another one of my favs. But that was a much tougher hole, and the blindness didn't give me the excitement that I got from Rananchan. It is probably over-all a better hole, but lacked the thrill in the blindness.

Dan King

Machrihanish was not a grueling course, but any legitimate scratch golfer who went around in level fours would be extremely delighted. And yet I don't think a twenty-handicapper would ever struggle to break a hundred there.  Machrihanish was fun, yet challenging, a combination that is surprisingly rare.
 --Michael Bamberger

[Pete Lavallee]

The Dell at Lahinch is definetly the most fun blind hole I've ever played. But does the white rock placed at the top of the dune to indicate the line to the day's pin add or subtract from the hole's charm? I doubt a truely blind shot (no knowlege of the pins position that day) provides as great a satisfaction as a shot that seems to be taking the perfect line over the dune to the hole. Should blind holes have markers to indicate the line of play? As a tourist I certainly appreciated the aiming stones on both the Dell and the Klondike and felt that they definetly enhanced the thrill felt by a well executed shot on a blind hole.

[ForkaB]

I played Cruden Bay yesterday, and Darren is right about the photo being of 16 (which, BTW, is a semi-blind hole itself).  I also agree with Darren about 15 (hey, it's your lucky day, big guy!), which is more goofy than good (viz. the railroad ties/sleepers than carom shanked tee shots onto the green) and has a green than could have been designed in conjunction with the Flat Earth Society.  It does, however, have the coolest warning bell I've ever seen, which consists of 100-foot long Rube Goldberg rope contraption running from a bell at the top of the dune (from where the golfers on the tee can hear it) back down to the tee.  I got to pull it yesterday!

Just so Scott B. doesn't continue with his misconceptions, let me say that I think that #3 at Cruden Bay is one of the greatest blind par-3's I've ever seen--sure it's "par" 4 on the scorecard, but at 270 downhill you can't help but try to find a line amogsnt the humps and hillocks to the hidden green.  Along with that I'd vote for the Dell (not the Kloyndyke which is a stupid hole) as well as both Prestwick holes.  Comparing Sahara at Prestwick with Klondyke is a good lesson in the good and the bad of blindness.  I also concur with #2 at NGLA.  I'm not as much of a fan of #3 as others, but I'm nearly a virgin at that track.  In fact, I'm not really sure whether opr not I still have my cherry.......

Of course, my most favo(u)rites come from Painswick.  #1 (perfectly and ironicaly named "Attack"), with the seemingly driveable tee shot that inevitably ends up in the Druid burial pit fronting the green, and the two short holes (5 and 10) that "out-Dell" THE Dell.

What I don't like, Scott, are blind uphill 2nds to "par" 4's.  I won't name names, for now.......

[Darren_Kilfara]

Rich - easy there, fella. We can't be seen to agree with one another like this too often! However, re: the 3rd at Cruden Bay, I analyzed that hole at some length in my book, and I'm convinced the way to play it is with a 5-iron off the tee and a full wedge into the green (preferably from the left side of the fairway). There are just too many things that can go wrong when you take out the driver - you're much more likely to make bogey that way than put yourself in position to make birdie/eagle.

Pete - I agree with you that marker posts of some sort should be employed on all blind holes, just as a reference point. I've seen holes where the marker doesn't necessarily indicate the preferred line of play, but that's good enough for me...being able to use that as a guide ultimately speeds play up, simply because I don't have to fret about choosing a cloud or piece of grass (and then forgetting which cloud of piece of grass I'd chosen) instead.

Dan - You know, for the life of me I couldn't tell you which hole "Bruach More" is without looking at a scorecard. (From context, I'm guessing it must be the 7th.) The Scots, in my experience, call their holes by the number and not the name at most courses, just like we Americans do.

Bill - quite a few of us in Kintyre have internet access nowadays, you know. I should point out, though, that the "Mull of Kintyre" is a particular spot about 10 miles south of Machrihanish on the coast and is not a term to be used for the peninsula as a whole. Common misconception. No biggie, though!

Cheers,
Darren

[James Edwards]

I see Darren started a thread titled the best blind hole in the world and so far the majority of replies have historic examples from Scotland and Ireland.

Are there any good modern examples of blind holes elsewhere, with the character of these excellent earlier examples? (excusing Long Cove, Fishers Island and Old Marsh)

[Phil_the_Author]

What about the 15th hole at Bethpage Black?

It certainly could be the most dificult.

[James Edwards]

Phil - nice selection.

Good question.  Could the CC composite course (or Ryder Cup course) hole 13 be equally as tough?

[ForkaB]

Darren

I hit my tee shot on 3 to 10 feet yesterday, and would have had a 2 if the greens hadn't been so bumpy and knocked my perfectly pure putt off line at the last moment.......  You'll have to tear the driver out of my cold dying hands on that hole in the future.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I love the Dell at Lahinch and of course that little hole at Preswick. #8 at Pebble is a pretty fair hole too. Darren, the drive to the Mull is not one for those used to interstate highways to get to attractions. I passed on the walk down given my girth and the cercumstances. Therefore I chose another pint and the view from the top.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Rich and Darren,

I loved the 3rd at Cruden Bay. It was one of my favorite of my trip, and being sort-of-kinda blind, I would nominate it.

Probably one of the great things about the hole is that I wouldn't play it like either of you. I tried Rich's prefered method of driver twice, and got a 3 and a 6. I tried Darren's prefered method of leaving a full wedge, but didn't have much luck getting a wedge close ( I know that's not a surprise).

So the way that's most comfortable for me is to bunt a 3-iron off the tee (surprised, huh), and then punch a running shot onto the green. What's beautiful about the hole is that the right pitch and run can get to anywhere on the green - even back right.

[Evan Fleisher]

All...sorry about the miscue on the Cruden Bay picture...my bad!  

[SPDB]

Phil - nice selection.

Good question.  Could the CC composite course (or Ryder Cup course) hole 13 be equally as tough?

J.J.S.E. - I think you are thinking about the 12th at TCC (Open), not the 13th which is downhill all the way.

As a par 4, the 12 the is totally blind, and it is a bear. I cannot imagine a tougher hole. Is there one?

[Paul_Turner]

County Down's 9th, is the most dramatic and best.

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