Did growing up in Ohio hurt Jack's game?

[Jim Nugent]

I don't know how long the golf season is there, but I wouldn't think more than nine months.  Say that's right.  For three months a year, Nicklaus played little or no golf.  Seems to me that that has to have hurt his game.  

For example, Jack's one weakness was his short game.  If he'd played all year as a kid and teenager, instead of being a high school basketball star during the winter months, perhaps he could have corrected that shortcoming.

I wonder if this is true for Jack, and also in general.  Might be interesting to see where today's touring pro's grew up and learned the game.  Are places with year-round golf over-represented?    

[Mike_Sweeney]

I have a friend who played for Duke, now trains a number of NBA players, but he makes his real money selling his books and training young kids.

Besides the emotions surrounding playing only one sport as a kid 365 days a year, he is also a believer that the all around athlete will be better off in the long run when they do focus on one sport. I believe that Nicklaus fit this category with basketball and football.

http://www.powerperformance.net/youngathletes.htm

[tonyt]

Seems to me that that has to have hurt his game.

Obviously

[TEPaul]

One of the most interesting things about some top-flight golfers is their apparent need to really pace themselves both physically and mentally in ways we might not understand very well. Nicklaus may've been the first in modern times to make that work for him (he basically played less events yearly than any of his primary competitors) although Bob Jones appears to have been a true "seasonal"  golfer, believe it or not.

There's no question Tiger Woods picked up on Nicklaus' "scheduling" method real early and he too has used it to his apparent advantage.

We see these guys play golf and we're aware of their strengths and weakness that way but the one thing we don't see is how they manage the rest of their lives. Something tells me that area may be even more important to them in the broad scheme of things than what they do when they're out there for all to see.

One thing that seems to be remarkably common among all the mega-stars of golf is they have mostly all had wives who appear to have been and are really supportive in essential ways.

[Ally Mcintosh]

jim,

that's a ridiculous assumption...

....mike sweeney hit the nail on the head... i'd advise any youngster to concentrate on as many sports as possible until a certain age... after a while you naturally choose which sport you will concentrate on and the others become hobbies and relaxation

[TEPaul]

Did you know just a few years ago Tiger was considering chucking golf and going with his other real love, scuba diving, in an attempt to become humankind's greatest suba-diver? This was not long after he formally changed his name from Eldrick Woods to Tiger Woods. He was considering formally changing his name again from Tiger Woods to Tiger Shark Woods.

(When Earl heard about that he changed his story that Tiger might be the second coming of Christ, to Tiger might be humankind's lost link between man and fish).

However, Tiger's great friend, basketball great, Charles Barkley, apparently convinced Tiger to chuck his dream of becoming the best scuba-diver amongst either man or fish with the comment;

"Look, Tiger, how many times am I going to have to tell you that THE BROTHERS just don't scuba dive?"

The real reason Tiger always wears a red shirt on Sunday is because he's always had this insatiable desire to be a lobster.

[Dan_Callahan]

OT, but speaking of Sir Charles, anyone watch MNF last night? There's Charles in the booth talking with Theisman and the crew. Cardinals are up 20–0 and the Bears look awful. Charles says, "The Cardinals better not start playing safe. They're going to need alot more than 20 points to win this game.' Sounded stupid at the time, like most of his comments. Next thing you know, it's 24–23 and the Bears win one of the ugliest games in NFL history. Guess the guy knows what he's talking about . . .

[TEPaul]

Dan:

Did you ever see that interview where they had Charles and Tiger on but they were in different places and on a TV hookup?

Charles was going on and on about how Tiger was without question the best golfer who ever lived. He said he was beyond phenomonal.

Then they cut to Tiger who had this very suspicous look on his face like Charles was about to drop the other shoe.

Tiger was promoting his book saying that if ANYONE, anyone at all reads it carefully there is no question at all that it will help them immeasurably.

When Charles hears that he stops and says: "Wait a minute, TIger can't be that good because he sure hasn't done a thing to help my game".

Then Tiger says:

"Wait, I amend that. My book can help ANYONE in the world but it can't help Charles, he is just totally hopeless---I've tried and tried but even I can help him."

That's about the time Charles launched into the bit about THE BROTHERS just don't scuba dive.

Then Charles says:

"Let me tell you something else---Tiger is, is----ah, how do those white folks say it, oh yeah---he's fruuuuuugal."

[michael j fay]

Jack Nicklaus playing for the Scioto Golden Bears was declared the all-city catcher in Columbus, OH. Second place went to a fellow named Johnny Bench.

As I watch the youth play golf today, I cannot help but think that there is an early age burn-out in many cases. The year round tournament schedule, the practices, the constant pressure does not lead to diversity.

Some kids thrive on it. Others lose interest.

Nicklaus had diversity by necessity and did pretty well for himself.

[Brian_Sleeman]

In Jack's book, "Golf My Way," I remember reading that although he did grow up with a shorter golf season than those in the southern half of the US, he did hit balls throughout the winter at a heated practice range.  Back in those days, as rare as those ranges were, he wasn't too far behind the rest of the pack in terms of practice time.  

In fact, one could argue that since he devoted those three months almost entirely to hitting balls (rather than rounds of golf), he may have even practiced more than the guys down south who had the benefit of playing 18 and spent less time on the range.

I also agree with the pace comments - Nicklaus was a big believer in spending time in other areas so as to remain fresh whenever he had to tee it up.

[T_MacWood]

I think growing up in Ohio may have actually helped....not concentrating on just one sport may have been a good thing in the long run.

Upper Arlington Golden Bears and Johnny Edwards was the other catcher...Bench grew up in Oklahoma and was a few years younger.

[Jim Nugent]

jim,

that's a ridiculous assumption...

....mike sweeney hit the nail on the head... i'd advise any youngster to concentrate on as many sports as possible until a certain age... after a while you naturally choose which sport you will concentrate on and the others become hobbies and relaxation

Perhaps it's ridiculous, though it's a question not an assumption.  I took my own advice though.  I looked up where the top ten ranked golfers in the world grew up.  Also where the top ten money winners grew up.  Here are the lists:

World Golf Rankings:

1.  Tiger........So California
2.  Furyk.......Pennsylvania
3.  Phil..........So California
4.  Scott.......Australia
5.  Vijay........Fiji
6.  Goosen.....So Africa
7.  Els...........So Africa
8.  Donald......Hemel Hempstead, England
9.  Sergio......Spain
10. Ogilvy.....Australia

U.S. Top 10 Money Winners

1.  Tiger
2.  Furyk
3.  Phil
4.  Ogilvy
5.  Singh
6.  Scott
7.  Immelman (So Africa)
8.  Appleby (Australia)
9.  Donald
10. Toms (Louisiana)

While I don't know for sure, it looks to me like nearly all of the world's best golfers grew up with year-round golf.  

I take Mike Sweeney's point.  But it doesn't necessarily contradict the one I brought up.  In a warmer climate Jack could have played his other sports and still not have missed out on golf several months a year.  Jack didn't specialize until he finished high school.  And even then he went to OSU, with its shorter golf season.  

It looks like nearly all the top golfers currently on tour had the opportunity to play or practice year round.  

[Philippe Binette]

18 majors later... I don't think so.

Maybe playing all year would have made him tired of golf at 19 years old.

The winter is really important sometimes... Jack siad that it was since he could go out in March, see his coach Jack Grout, get back to basics and start fresh and eager to play

[Patrick_Mucci]

Based on his record, I"m surprised more golfers didn't move to Ohio.

Perhaps a thread on growing up in Pennsylvania and Arnold Palmer's game is next ?

[Anthony Butler]

Annika Sorenstam grew up near Stockholm where it snows for half the year and she's doing OK... I think it's more a matter of how you adjust once you become a pro that decides if you are a perennial Number 1. Think about it: Nicklaus, Tiger, Sorenstam, Federer, Evert, Graf, Navratilova, Schumacher... there are definitely some personality similarities amongst people who are able to dominate their sports for long periods of time... the ability to keep other aspects of their life in balance and their eyes on the prize.

[John_Conley]

Jim is evidently unaware that Florida has contributed almost no great players to the list of world's best.

The empirical evidence shows Nicklaus was just fine.

[Jim Nugent]

19 of the last 20 NCAA Men's Division I Golf Championships have been won by southern or western universities.

All five of the top-rated U.S. juniors are from southern or western states.  

Of the top 30 money-winners on the U.S. tour this year, it looks like 26 grew up with year-round golf, or went to colleges that had year-round golf.  Mostly grew up there, btw.  

It looks like eight of ten of the world's current top ten grew up in areas that had year-round golf, and nine of ten went to college in such areas.  

It's not a huge stretch to think that being able to practice and play year round is likely to produce better golfers, compared to only being able to practice and play eight or nine months a year.  I've found a fair amount of evidence that supports the idea.  Nearly all of today's top golfers were able to play golf 12 months a year as they were forming their games.  

Jack produced a fantastic record.  Does that mean he could not have become a better golfer?  Other top pro's said he only played in his spare time.  He himself says he wishes he had practiced his short game more.  Maybe just maybe he would have, had he been more than a part-time golfer.      

[JESII]

The winter is really important sometimes... Jack siad that it was since he could go out in March, see his coach Jack Grout, get back to basics and start fresh and eager to play

This is the reason. Some people are able to prioritize golf when they are in the full year golf climate, but for those of us in the 8 or 9 month season, those three or four months are a blessing. Coming out in March or April really excited to play again is something the guys in the Sunbelt cannot fathom. Some of them are excited to play all the time anyway, but the rest burnout at some point.

[Jim Nugent]

Some people are able to prioritize golf when they are in the full year golf climate, but for those of us in the 8 or 9 month season, those three or four months are a blessing. Coming out in March or April really excited to play again is something the guys in the Sunbelt cannot fathom. Some of them are excited to play all the time anyway, but the rest burnout at some point.

Then why are almost all of today's top golfers from places that have 12-month golf seasons?  

[JESII]

Because they learned early on how to prioritize golf.

Can you name any of those listed that did not participate in at least one other activity as a young person?

My point is not that there is a benefit to be gained by living in Ohio, but that there is a huge benefit to be gained by having other activities that interest you.  

[Mike_Sweeney]

Then why are almost all of today's top golfers from places that have 12-month golf seasons?  

Jim,

Furyk obviously did not. Not sure about when Vijay took up the game. I think it has to do with coming out of areas with good junior programs. Do those programs happen more in warm weather states at least here in the US? Probably.

I am on the Florida State Golf Association and the Met here in New York. When you get the FSGA emails, there is always stuff about JR programs, not so much with The Met.
http://www.fsga.org/juniorgolf/splash.asp

Not sure if it has to do more with culture or weather however.

[Phil Benedict]

The days of excelling in multiple sports are over.  The competition is too intense now for kids to play more than one sport beyond adolescence.  In today's world, a prodigy like Jack Nicklaus would concentrate on golf at an early age and his family would move to the South or send him away to a golf academy.  All-around athletes (eg Mike Souchak who played football at Duke) are a thing of the past.

It isn't just sports - high school kids find it difficult to have more than one extracurricular activity of any kind.  Most of the incentives are for concentrating on doing one thing very well, whether it's playing a sport or a musical instrument or whatever.

[JLahrman]

I also find that it is helpful in the cold weather to just practice a little grip, stance, and alignment.  Get the clubs inside, start aligning yourself on a hardwood or tile floor, get a mirror and have a look at the grip.

It's not uncommon for me to play my best golf in March or April.

[cary lichtenstein]

If you compare Tiger's short game with Jack's, Jack must have been a way better ball striker. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[Mike_Sweeney]

The days of excelling in multiple sports are over.  The competition is too intense now for kids to play more than one sport beyond adolescence.  In today's world, a prodigy like Jack Nicklaus would concentrate on golf at an early age and his family would move to the South or send him away to a golf academy.  All-around athletes (eg Mike Souchak who played football at Duke) are a thing of the past.

It isn't just sports - high school kids find it difficult to have more than one extracurricular activity of any kind.  Most of the incentives are for concentrating on doing one thing very well, whether it's playing a sport or a musical instrument or whatever.

Phil,

I know you are basically right, but I still hold out for the occasional Charlie Ward (Heisman and Houston Rockets) to prove you wrong. To clarify my initial post, my trainer friend believes kids should not start to concentrate on 1 or 2 sports untill they are 12-13, so age is a factor. I just don't like seeing the kids that are 8 and 9 that are the next Tiger Woods or LeBron.

I ran two triathlons this summer, neither very well and my handicap went up, so perhaps I am full of crapola.