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PThomas

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would Seminole be better without trees?
« on: October 16, 2006, 10:24:58 PM »
(NOTE:  I haven't been there much less played there)

I love trees, but when I see some pictures of Seminole with those skinny plam trees it makes me wonder if the course would be better off without them...

have they always been on the course?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 10:32:21 PM »
Paul,

Is this a trick question? I haven't been there either, but....

Basal Pruning Rules!

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

PThomas

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Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 10:59:51 PM »
not a trick question Joe...on some pictures those skinny little palms just look kind of silly to me, that's all
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

TEPaul

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2006, 07:11:35 AM »
I don't think Seminole is a course that would be enhanced at all if ALL the trees on the course were removed.

About 10-15 years ago the course was really overgrown with trees and other natural vegetation that is indigenous to Florida and it was all cut way back including along the dunes  so one could see under the trees and such. I will never forget what a changed look that was for me when I first saw it.

However, I have always thought those palms that look to me like massive telephone polls that are along the bunker line that divides the two fairways on #15 should go. I think those things are an unnecessary drawback aesthetically and strategically on that hole.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2006, 08:18:26 AM »
What trees ?

With the exception of # 3, # 9 and # 16 no trees come into play in the interior of the golf course during a normal round.

The palms are indigenous to that area.
There are some other species, like Sea Grape, but they're removed from the corridors of play.  I believe that the large Banyan at the left elbow on # 3 is gone.

The course is terrific in its present form.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2006, 08:52:30 AM »
This is quite a coincidence as this very question is on the agenda at the next greens committee meeting.  I'll keep you posted. ;D
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Patrick_Mucci

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2006, 09:17:53 AM »
Redanman,

What pines ?

I don't recall any on the interior of the property.

Pines are also indigenous to the area.

TEPaul

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2006, 09:33:27 AM »
"What pines ?

The Australian Pines. I don't know about now but they used to be HUMONGOUS. They cleared out from under them years ago. Maybe they are indigenous to the course but if so somebody at some point was a bit off on their name.  ;)

Tim Copeland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2006, 09:39:23 AM »
I am working about an hour away....I would just love to see the place one weekend....just ride and take pics.......................
I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2006, 09:47:44 AM »
This is quite a coincidence as this very question is on the agenda at the next greens committee meeting.  I'll keep you posted. ;D

Steve - I am available for consulting on this matter for a very minimal fee ;D :D...
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2006, 10:00:35 AM »

You must have meant to say:
SOME species of Pines are also indigenous to the area.

but but but coastal dunes of southeast Florida do NOT have indiginous pines

Neither does Seminole.
There are no pines on the coastal dune at Seminole.
Sea Grapes abound

You must have this golf course confused with the Boca Raton Municipal course that sits on the Ocean


but I'm absolutrely certain that you have a colourized answer to that one, too.

The answer is too basic, and thus, colorization is not needed. ;D



Patrick_Mucci

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2006, 10:06:19 AM »
TEPaul,

The Australian Pines, one of three species on the Florida eradication list, border the northern end of the property and serve as a valueable barrier to the condos to the north.

There may be a stand or two of them on # 9 and near # 11 tee, but, none of them are anywhere near the interior corridors of play.

Paul T,

Let me see if I understand this.

You've never seen the golf course in person, think the interior trees should be removed, and want to offer your services to the club.

Do you carry malpractice insurance ?

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2006, 10:19:33 AM »
TEPaul,

The Australian Pines, one of three species on the Florida eradication list, border the northern end of the property and serve as a valueable barrier to the condos to the north.

There may be a stand or two of them on # 9 and near # 11 tee, but, none of them are anywhere near the interior corridors of play.

Paul T,

Let me see if I understand this.

You've never seen the golf course in person, think the interior trees should be removed, and want to offer your services to the club.

Do you carry malpractice insurance ?

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, if Seminole is silly enough to take me up on my tongue-in-cheek offer -then shame on them!

I can have opinions too Patrick just like you...as I stated above from some pictures I've seen some of those trees look kind of stupid to me..

...and sounds like others might be agreeing , if they are going to discuss it!

this is a DISCUSSION group Patrick..I was just trying to stimulate some...and I guess I succeeded!

smile Patrick!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Geoffrey Childs

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2006, 10:24:20 AM »
I think the Palms add character to the course. They have a very high canopy and only add to shotmaking without affecting vistas.  

Patrick_Mucci

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2006, 10:35:46 AM »

Paul T,

Let me see if I understand this.

You've never seen the golf course in person, think the interior trees should be removed, and want to offer your services to the club.

Do you carry malpractice insurance ?

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, if Seminole is silly enough to take me up on my tongue-in-cheek offer -then shame on them!

Paul T, Paul T, Paul T,  

If you're silly enough to take me serious on my tongue-in-cheek comment, then shame on you.


I can have opinions too Patrick just like you...as I stated above from some pictures I've seen some of those trees look kind of stupid to me..

Shouldn't the judgement of whether to keep or remove trees be based on the actual experience of seeing them in the ground, on the grounds at Seminole ?

While everyone has opinions, don't fact based or first hand opinions carry more weight ?

What were the dates of the photos you viewed ?  


...and sounds like others might be agreeing , if they are going to discuss it!

What do you mean by "might", and which others ?

What's the breadth and depth of their experience at Seminole ?  
When was the last time they were on the property to observe the trees ?


this is a DISCUSSION group Patrick..I was just trying to stimulate some...and I guess I succeeded!

I agree, but, making a recommendation when you've never seen the property, or the trees you reference, especiallly as they relate to the golfer, is ....... imprudent.


smile Patrick!

I do, every morning that I wake up. ;D

Quote
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 10:37:26 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2006, 10:49:17 AM »

Paul T,

Let me see if I understand this.

You've never seen the golf course in person, think the interior trees should be removed, and want to offer your services to the club.

Do you carry malpractice insurance ?

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, if Seminole is silly enough to take me up on my tongue-in-cheek offer -then shame on them!

Paul T, Paul T, Paul T,  

If you're silly enough to take me serious on my tongue-in-cheek comment, then shame on you.


I can have opinions too Patrick just like you...as I stated above from some pictures I've seen some of those trees look kind of stupid to me..

Shouldn't the judgement of whether to keep or remove trees be based on the actual experience of seeing them in the ground, on the grounds at Seminole ?

While everyone has opinions, don't fact based or first hand opinions carry more weight ?

What were the dates of the photos you viewed ?  


...and sounds like others might be agreeing , if they are going to discuss it!

What do you mean by "might", and which others ?

What's the breadth and depth of their experience at Seminole ?  
When was the last time they were on the property to observe the trees ?


this is a DISCUSSION group Patrick..I was just trying to stimulate some...and I guess I succeeded!

I agree, but, making a recommendation when you've never seen the property, or the trees you reference, especiallly as they relate to the golfer, is ....... imprudent.


smile Patrick!

I do, every morning that I wake up. ;D

Quote

my fault then Patrick, I didn't know you were talking tongue-in cheek!


you are absolutely correct re those with first hand knowledge/experience with those ugly damn ;) trees should have far more weight attached to their opinion than mine...(I did say right up front that I have never been there!)

Steve said it is on the agenda to be discussed...unless he's pulling my leg too

lemme try and find which pictures of those scrawny trees ;) inspired this thread

and glad to see you smile every day!  I have bad days like everyone else but I try to too

...which makes me think of this:  when I read that recent thread about the Jones brothers fighting over something again, it made me think what idiots they are being....there's 2 guys, very successful, probably pretty well off, who have traveled the world over starting another fight

I wonder if they ever count their blessings.....on the other side of the coin, a sight I saw the other day truly saddened me....a person helping a blind relative or friend walk after they left the Social Security office...maybe the Jones Bros.  need to see sights like that to make them relize how damn lucky they are

2 brothers in their stations in life fighting all the time...pathetic, asinine, ridiculous, embarrasing


« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 11:27:38 AM by Paul T »
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2006, 11:48:51 AM »
I think I would say yes to this question about most every course I have played except Seminole. On the very few instances that they intervene on a hole, the hole wouls suffer with their removal. #'s 3 and 9 specifically.

Disclaimer: I have no idea about their history at the course, and frankly do not care if they were not there initially, they help those holes today.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2006, 08:09:28 PM »


Maleluca never should have come over from Australia! (sorry, guys, at least that's what they told me growing up!)



Many varieties of Maleluca should never, never be on any golf course, Australian or otherwise.  They are the ultimate 'honeymoon' tree.  The prostrate variety are just ugly.  They fail Mackenzie's 'no looking for lost balls' rule big time.  They are like a water hazard, but without the 'hazard' option.

There are some more vertical varities, eg the paperbark.  They are quite good, but are the exception.

Australian Pines?  Any pictures?  Perhaps Causurinas - needle like leaf that hangs downwards, not as wide or large as cypress and pinus varities.

James B
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 08:39:25 PM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Jason Mandel

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Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2006, 08:28:07 PM »
Steve said it is on the agenda to be discussed...unless he's pulling my leg too





Paul,

I'm quite certain Steve was pulling your leg! :)
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

Patrick_Mucci

Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2006, 10:05:08 PM »
James Bennett,

If you drive along the Florida Turnpike you can see the Australian Pines that remain.  They shed like crazy and when hurricanes hit Florida they topple onto the roadways, hence, the Florida TPK is getting rid of them AQAP.

They're majestic in height, but a nuisance.

The Maleluca was a great sponge for water.
Some thought that planting them could turn wet areas into dry areas.  Golf course projects with wet areas were thought to be ideal for them, hence they were planted in abundance.

Brazilian Pepper trees (Florida Holly), almost a soft wood weed, which causes breathing problems and rashes round out the trees listed for eradication in Florida.

What's reallly interesting is that over the years the snow birds have planted Oaks, Olives, Plum and other non-indigenous trees on golf courses and in residential communities.

Then, Mother Nature comes along, decimates and eliminates man's foolish work, only to have man repeat the error of his ways.

Insurance carriers are ceasing to cover tree loss in Florida since many clubs put in for claims on trees they planted, many of which were imported from the north, and are not aerodynamically suited to handle hurricane winds.

I'll never understand why idiots come to tropical Florida and try to duplicate the foilage from New York and Chicago.
And, they continue to due so despite repeated admonitions from Mother Nature.

Some just don't get it.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2006, 10:19:10 PM »

I'll never understand why idiots come to tropical Florida and try to duplicate the foilage from New York and Chicago.

Some just don't get it.

Thanks Pat and Bill

Pat

I expect the idiots really liked New York and Chicago, but preferred the Florida weather.  They probably thought it was easier to import New York and Chicago into their Florida lifestyle than it was to shift Florida weather to the snowlands.

James B

Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

James Bennett

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Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2006, 08:45:32 AM »
Bill

I'm thinking of a new version of 'hells half acre' :(



The story on those trees makes more sense knowing the varieties. I quite like the occcasional paperbark in our climate, and the causarinas as an alternative native tree.  They don't grow as high as other trees, but provide protection on small acreage courses.  Of course, we are mediterranean in climate, not tropical.

We have to watch the root systems on such trees.  Some of these are shallow rooted, hence take up a lot of water (good in wet areas, not good in drought areas where the turf will be out-competed) and not good in windy spots where the shallow roots result in tree 'blow-outs'.

The indigenous trees can look so good in their own environment.  I generally hate Cypresses, but they are magnificent on the Monterey Peninsula.  And the stringy bark gums are great ay my home club.  However, I understand that Tasmanian Blue gums don't look any good anywhere in the world, not even Tasmania.  The grow fast, drop bark and nuts and leaves, use lots of water and then die quite quickly as well.  ::)

If I recall correctly, they buried a lot of the trees at Boca Rio.  Good option.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2006, 11:07:18 AM »
I agree with Pat Mucci....What trees?

With this said, there have been a lot of trees removed at Seminole in the last few years and those left are either very strategic, namely the banyon trees on the left and right at the dogleg on #3, or out of play and don't effect things.  

There are so few recent pictures of Seminole that it is difficult to totally describe what they have done.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 12:51:41 PM by Adam_Messix »

John_Cullum

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Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2006, 11:48:45 AM »


« Last Edit: October 18, 2006, 11:51:25 AM by John Cullum »
"We finally beat Medicare. "

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:would Seminole be better without trees?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2006, 12:01:26 PM »
I thought those were some pictures I had taken, but now I don't think so. I took some right after the hurricane, and now I cant find them.
"We finally beat Medicare. "