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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wolf Point Club
« on: October 16, 2006, 11:17:01 AM »
I have been quite busy of late and haven't talked as much about our current project in Texas as much as I'd like.  So here goes...
Don and I have been very productive and are having a very good time.  Six holes are finish shaped with drainage  installed (thankfully) and several others are rough shaped.  We have tackled the hard ones first, the later holes have very little shaping required.

We have been hammered by rain this week, so Don is around a computer today as well.  

Please ask some questions.

The following is the routing plan for Wolf Point Club:



Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2006, 11:27:01 AM »
Wow...very cool looking.  Everything in green is to be cut as fairway?

I like the look of #s 3, 7, 13, 16, 17, 18 especially, at least from the air.  #s 9 and 10 also look to potentially have a fun gambling aspect to them.  Can't wait for some pics someday soon if time/client allows!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

GDStudio

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2006, 11:34:31 AM »
Very nice, good luck with everything.  

Love the look of #5 bunker and the use of them on #7 (are they on a ridge facing the tees by chance?)

Glad to see things are moving forward for you Mike.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 11:44:23 AM »
Brad and Branden,
Thank you.

Yes.  Everything in green is fairway.

I was most concerned with #9 in it's traditional lakeside play / look, but the shaping has turned out excellent - I'd say unique.

Don suggested some especially nice greenside strategy that was incorporated, as well as making the fairway look as good as it does.


Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 11:44:50 AM »
Mike:

Why all of the short grass to the left off the tee on #5?

Is there a drop-off at the back of the dam to the fairway on #10?

Why would anyone play to the right on #18?

And, just to get it out of the way, how long is the course from the tips?  [Not that I care, but I suspect someone does!]

The course looks different on paper than anything I've seen.  I hope it's just as different on the ground.

Scott Witter

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 11:52:49 AM »
Mike:

Glad you are busy.  The routing looks strong and certainly could even be stronger with great land character, only you would know...appears to have a nice mix/use of orientation and most likely the WIND in TX!  You also have exploited the creek too and when combined with the wind, should produce some good golf.

From 'our' view, can you tell us which way the prevailing wind will come from...should we presume that north is straight up?

I presume the 'cast away' location of the 7th hole was due to great land conditions for a natural hole?

Clearly, you are not going to be bashful with 'centerline' bunkering and random (but quite thoughtful, I am sure!) with the other bunker strategies.  I like the appearance of carry angles and many choices from the tee and approach.  Have fun with it!

You have portrayed something this site would like.  We will all be waiting to see some pictures and of course the finished product...07 or 08?.  Don't be afraid to post some construction shots.

Scott Witter

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 12:04:15 PM »
Mike:

I assume the trees you have shown are actually there as many appear to be integral to play/design on certain holes?

How wide is the creek...all those bridges could get expensive.

Is #1 as short as it appears?  Can the first set of bunkers on #3 be carried from the back tees?  Does the player have to play a cut around the trees on #9 to avoid the bunkers straight away?  Is #14 a par 5?  As a long par 4 this could be an interesting hole with the trees and the location of the green.

What would be "unique" about the shaping on the 9th?  Can you describe what you mean?  I would have thought unique has already been done.

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 12:05:58 PM »
Is there any reason to try to carry the line of bunkers on #7. It looks like a bottle hole, but the almost perpendicular line from the tee makes me wonder why anyone would attempt to carry it to the far side of the fairway. Also, isn't possible that you'd run it through the fairway?

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 12:10:06 PM »
Mike

Very nice.

Could you provide some additional detail about the bottle hole (like) #7?  What is its length and carries to the various parts of the dual fairways.  How do the green contours and pin locations influence ideal tee shot landing areas?

Thanks and good luck with the project.

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2006, 12:10:41 PM »
Sean-

great minds think alike  ;)

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2006, 12:18:09 PM »
Tom,
Thank you very much.

I very much agree, probably more so after reading what you have written over the years, in challenging the better player vs. the avg player.  The expansive fairway is different.  I think it will effect the average player or unfamiliar player more than the better player or the member.
I am trying to have it look like the safe landing area is enormous.  4 & 5 will both look very expansive, when in reality they aren't - if score matters.

The back of the 10th green is a significant fall off in terms of playability - it also has a little shoot exit ramp if you play too aggressive.  Joe Hancock, and I, got pretty aggressive back there.

Why hit to the right side of 18?
I think about that a lot.  Don and I talk about it frequently.
Here is what I hope would cause someone to not be sure which way to go:
The tee shot across the creek, to the left, would be into the strong prevailing gulf coast wind.
The green has a steep fall off that I believe comes more into play if playing from the left, and the green runs away if the player is a little long.
The yardage from the left is shorter and a little more awkward.
I think after our last talk Don said why would anyone go left?

The red tees on the plan are approximately 6500 yards - the total walk including green to tee walks is very, very short.  There are back tees, usually on the other sides of the greens - still a short walk, but there are a few out of the way.  They play about 800 yards longer...
The green tees are 4500 yards.

Actually there are no formal tees, so you can put a tee almost anywhere.

« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 12:19:54 PM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Jason Blasberg

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2006, 12:34:17 PM »
Mike:

Looks very interesting.  

Question:  Can the trees down the left side of #5 be carried if the player pulls their tee shot left, which that WIDE fairway clearly seems to encourage.  It looks like a great use of width creating a false sense of security.

I also think that if the trees could be carried, it would be a nice heroic option on the second even after failing the heroic option off the tee.

Jason
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 12:35:29 PM by Jason Blasberg »

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2006, 12:38:14 PM »
Scott,
Thank you.
Yes the trees shown are giant live oaks, many are integral to play and the overall look.  There is a pee-ka-boo look at a very big bunker between two beautiful oaks on 9.  They help with a line of charm or two - and even frame a hole nicely here and there.

The creek is pretty narrow.
Yes #1 is short - 290 from the regular tees.
Yes, if you do carry the left bunkers on #3, you will most likely go for the green in two.
There is pleanty of room on #9 to play straight, there is one bunker hidden behind the trees in the fwy.
#14 is intended to be a par 5 - it transitions from the ranch area to the creek area.  I really like it.

The shaping on #9 may not be entirely unique, but definately for Texas.  It's very undulated.

Sean & Geoffrey,
Thanks.
I'll take the fifth and say 7 is a little TBD as of today - it is shortish - 350 for me and you.
It looks way better on plan when I draw a lot of bunkers, but as construction has been proceeding, it has been a goal to make the earthwork interesting and strategic enough to require fewer bunkers.  And it has been working.
I do intend for the 7th green to be the most intricate.

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 12:39:02 PM by Mike Nuzzo »
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2006, 12:57:20 PM »
Mike,

   Do you see the bunkers between #11 and#12 working for both holes? I like that feature.
AKA Mayday

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2006, 01:43:19 PM »
where is it?

Scott Witter

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2006, 01:45:34 PM »
Mike:

I'm hurt :(...I see for Mr. Doak you said "thank you very much", for me you said "thank you" and for Sean & Geoff you said, "thanks"...well I guess we know our place in your little black book ;)

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2006, 01:48:50 PM »
Mike - Thanks - looks great.

Question on #18

- Did you think about putting the tee imediately next to the 17th green rather than the 14 green eliminating the go left option and using the creek more?
Integrity in the moment of choice

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2006, 02:38:16 PM »
Jason,
Thank you.
I hadn't considered that route before - on #5.
The green is way more rewarding from nearest that large bunker - infernio.
The green cants off the front, left and back.  Very pinehursty.

Mayday,
Merci.
Yes those bunkers effect play on 11 & 12.  12 is a very short downhill tiny target par 3.  The green also runs away from the tee.  The bunker will need to be just carried to get as close as possible to the pin.

John,
It is about 100 miles from my office in Houston, near the gulf.

Scott,
I was actually replying you your second message, which wasn't as flatering as your first.
Gracias!

The prevailing wind comes from the south east - lower right of the pic.  Don's says it hasn't stopped yet.  He has been on site since February.

The 7th location is being dictated by forces beyond my control, but not that much.

Here is a favorite construction shot of Don, me and Bobby, the grower of the best sweet corn I've ever had in my life.  He also has a few scrapers that we utilized between harvests.







Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Scott Witter

Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2006, 02:47:06 PM »
Mike:

Of course you understand that I had to 'butter' you up first before I started asking real questions/comments...which I forgot to add, I also like where you placed many forward tees and that you were not afraid to incorporate hazards (bunkers) for those players as well.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2006, 02:47:49 PM »
Mr Foley,
Danke.

Yes.
I did consider many combinations of getting back home - between 14 - 18.

Some of the clients preferences helped shape the final configuration, and the 15th green.

When ever Don and I talk about the 15th, he says he'll go build the hole in about 15 minutes while I'm at lunch.  The green is fantastic.  You will be able to putt from the front left to the back left, it is that warped - see pic below.  The spur of the creek, isn't wet, but more a dry tributary that flows around the green, and provides its contours.

As for who is going to build it... right now it is ripening.

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2006, 02:49:12 PM »
Mike,

3 things stand out from the routing that really pique my interest:

1.  the width of playing corridors (with the wind, you have created options galore off the tee and with approaches)

2.  2 greensites are bunkerless, 9 only have 1 bunker.  I love that.  One well placed bunker often creates far more strategic interest than one that is bunkered on both sides or all around.  

3.  Your use of centerline bunkers..... Combined with the width, that is a recipe for fun golf.  

I can't wait to learn more about the project, it looks great!

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2006, 02:51:01 PM »
Scott,
I appreciate the sensitivity.
The very forward tees have some perilous carries if one is so inclined to go straight for the green.
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2006, 02:51:26 PM »
 Mike,

  Was this course the basis for your thread on "tree clearing"?
AKA Mayday

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2006, 03:13:32 PM »
Damn, they went ahead and designed the logo without me! Well, I like it more than anything I would've done anyway.

I really like the looks of how everything is shaping up (no pun intended). Thanks for emailing me the course map a couple weeks ago, Mike. I think I forgot to thank you then. Unfortunately I am living proof of the devasting effects of long term sleep deprivation.

I'd like to place an order for some sweet corn when it's in season.

I think Tom D forgot to ask for the slope rating and course rating from the tippy tips....

 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Wolf Point Club
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2006, 04:30:19 PM »
Mike,
nice to see real progress over there. I'm sure with your incredible commitment to all things excellent, this will be a very fine/fun golf course.

One teensy-weensy minor thought, which, as the inveterate MacKenzie-phile, I must ask.

Why not returning Nines? Was there no possibility given the terrain?

best,
FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.