[Tom Huckaby]

JK,

Cry on the course?  For sure.  Twice.  At Ben's Porch paying- off Tom "poor me, I can't play worth a beep, oops, I just shot 75" Huckaby, and after the same bad actor closed me out at the KPIV prematurely (but prior to "Ace" McBride earning his moniker which made me smile despite the hurt just put on me).

 

 
Ah, those were the days.

[Tom Huckaby]

Charlie - my pleasure - as RJD said, this group does need catharsis now and then.  

And those are great examples as well, separating the emotional from the soulful.  Yeah, I never experienced what I call golf soul via any competitive success - although if I had the instances involving my Dad akin to what you did, that would come pretty darn close.  The soulful does come more via moments like you describe.

[RJ_Daley]

Sir Boab, Nice catch.  Here it is Lou...
http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_08_28/article14.html
and some discussion,
http://www.redbluechristian.com/?p=292

Huck, yes you have offered the discussion on "golf soul" and even an agnostic like me can see there is a difference, while not fully knowing if there is a difference...

[Lou_Duran]

I don't know, Thomas.  As you were counting your winnings on The Porch, I swear I witnessed a pious smile and a very faint halo just above your head.

Bob Huntley,

Thanks for the reference.  I read the article and didn't find anything all that controversial.  I do think that the author suffers from a complex not all that unusual among the skeptical and non-believers, i.e. that they are held in low regard or pitied by those who are less challenged on issues of faith.  From what I've experienced, nothing could be further from the truth.  For most, the source of principles and values are considerably less important than the actual possession, quality, and practice of the same.

P.S.- are you well versed in CA tax law?

[Tom Huckaby]

I don't know, Thomas.  As you were counting your winnings on The Porch, I swear I witnessed a pious smile and a very faint halo just above your head.

Too many years of altar-boy practice, I guess.

 

[Lou_Duran]

Dick,

Thanks for the link.  I found the online mag earlier and skimmed a number other articles.  And who ever said that conservatives were monolithic automatons!   I used to read Kristol's magazine ("Amercian Spectator"?), but like so many other things, after awhile, it became too repetitive.  Kind of like discussing strategy, technology, and the sins of the USGA for the upteenth time.

BTW, I am weaning myself from golf and politics in favor of scuba and, maybe, surfing.  Perhaps I will find my "soul" in one of these new pursuits.

[tlavin]

Have any of you ever cried on the golf course..

Mild spilling from the lachrymal gland occurred after a couple holes-in-one and a 222 yard eagle with a 3-wood on a par-4 hole, but all were quickly medicated after I put the Ketel to the Metal.

[Dan Kelly]

May I attempt to bridge the soul/emotion, Vietnam Wall/Ben's Porch divide?

In August, I was driving down a road on the West Clare peninsula in Ireland. My wife and 17-year-old daughter were in the back seat. My 15-year-old daughter was to my left, napping. We had just spent five days in London and most of a week in Ireland. And it suddenly hit me (not new knowledge, but a new formulation of it) that our days as a foursome -- the happiest days of my life -- were nearing their end. And my eyes filled with tears. They're filling again now.

That was not just emotion. That was my soul.

I don't know how to define a "golf soul" -- but I know that, for me, it's not on the same level as the soul that feels emotion as intensely and physically as I felt it that afternoon in Ireland (or even as intensely and physically as I felt it the first time I visited the Vietnam Wall, where all of the thousands of names included not one solitary soul I knew).

Which is not to say that I have not felt deeply on various days at various golf courses. I have -- and, had I not felt the even deeper soul I've felt, I might think I could feel no more deeply.

Here's what, at least for me, and perhaps for others, connects the experiences: the knowledge that, in the end, they will end.

This moment will pass. All moments will pass. That's what stirs my soul, on the golf course or anywhere else.

I think I've written myself into a corner again!

[Michael Moore]

"Although disquieting, this may, from the point of view of its latest interpretation, be the essence of the self: mysterious, ineffable, indefinable, unlimited, creative, known only by its deeds; in short, like God, of whom it is the impious mirror image. Above all, it is individual, unique; it is me . . . To sum up, the self is the modern substitute for the soul."

Allan Bloom - The Closing of the American Mind

[Tom Huckaby]

Dan:

That's great stuff.  And you have described the differences as they work out for you quite well.  I do believe that how this works out is never going to be close to universal - we all feel this and experience it in different ways, if we experience it at all.

But I am here to tell you this as well:  I have felt things on a golf course - not connected to any other human being - that were every bit as deep as those you felt (as you describe them) on that road in Ireland, or we both felt in front of that wall in DC.

I am likely unique in this.  But believe me, I have felt things like you felt on that road in other parts of life as well - so it's not that I don't know the feeling.  I have a very severely handicapped brother, and his trevails - but more importantly his joys and success - give good avenues for these feelings.

I also have three kids, and the oldest is growing up rapidly.  I get what you mean here all too painfully.

I have indeed had similar depths of feeling on golf courses.  It's different, yes - but I would never call it lesser.

It's like Kirk said - a connection to something greater than one's self.  That to me has every bit the depth of realizing that moments must end.  The former can't adequately be explained; the latter can be explained all too easily, and painfully.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Michael:

You lost me.  What I am talking about here goes FAR beyond the self.  In fact it's because it is so greater than the self that I even experience it at all...

And those are fun books.  But they are far afield from what I mean here.

Hey guys, I mean no offense by any of this.  Again "soul" may not be the correct word.  And I surely don't expect many people to look at this as I do.

TH

[Bill_McBride]

One of the things that has reenergized my love of golf is playing with three other GCA guys and we are all walking down the fairway, side by side, each carrying his golf bag. Or maybe with caddies.  After too many years of too much cart golf, that image to me is "golf soul" no matter where it takes place.

[RJ_Daley]

I am weaning myself from golf and politics in favor of scuba and, maybe, surfing.

Holy shnikies, Lou!  'Weaning' implies you may still hold on to some golf, while continuing to entertain your views of politics as you delve into the mysteries of the deep blue and join the dudes running the pipeline hanging ten.  That is some intersection of life.  I"m pretty sure I saw Dana Rohrbacher doing his parasail surfing thing at Malibu Beach the last time I went to Rustic Canyon a few years ago.  Will you be joining him?

[Lou_Duran]

Thomas,

I found M. Moore's citation provocative.  Perhaps I am digressing, but why put "self" in a negative context?  We survive and progress because of our sense of self.  Save for a realtively few like Mother Teresa, the most meaningful portion of philanthropic work has been done by people who have through their actions demonstrated a very strong sense of self.  Gates and Buffett are two good recent examples.

Are there soul-stirring experiences other than those resulting from achievement, yours or somebody else's meaningful to you?  When your brother does something that may be ordinary for some, but remarkable for him, doesn't that give you an emotional kick?  When he is not doing well, does it not bum you out?  On second thought, I suppose that the soul-stirring we are talking about can be either uplifting or one of anguish or remorse (like when Tommy sees a Rees Jones or Fazio golf course).  Sorry if I am driving this unique thread into the ground.      

[Tom Huckaby]

Lou:

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell that quote Michael posted means.  "The self is the substitute for the soul."  As I define the soul - that is what it means to me - that's surely a negative.  But hell, I am really lost on what all of that means, so no worries.

In any case to answer your questions: oh yes, I have experienced many soul-stirring moments that have nothing to do with any achievement by anyone.  I cited my brother only to show that such soul-stirring does occur for me well outside of golf.  Just remember: the soul-stirring on 16 CPC occurred as I stood there on the tee; the shots later played were fun, but far from soul-stirring.

Achievements and failures CAN cause this soul-stirring, for sure.  But at least for me, that's far from the only way such can occur.

TH

[Lou_Duran]

Dick,

I have no idea who this Dana chap is.  My soul is stirring for a change of pace, alas my recent foray into scuba, and my thoughts about getting a cheap long board.  Now all I need to do is get myself to LaLa land (perhaps now you can begin to understand my sudden loss of interest in politics and golf, though parts of Orange County are not a total cultural shock).

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