How does a handful of all-world holes...

« **on:** October 05, 2006, 05:37:53 PM »

....equate to something of a hidden gem?

This place has the name, but very few know it well.

Drop shot par 3 is an understatement:

Testy short par 4:

Ball break of an uphill par 4: tee shot and then the approach

This course stands as one of the best uses of a piece of property I've ever seen. Not one feature is wasted, and nothing could be added or removed to make the place better.

Hehe, I love guessing games. Fire away and those who know keep mum for a bit.

« **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:46:21 PM »

it's overshadowed by its big brother.
that corner of the property with those 3 little holes
is a lot of fun.

« **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:51:15 PM »

Yard for yard its almost as testy as its eastern brother.

« **Reply #3 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:54:32 PM »

Kind of looks like Weaver Ridge in Peoria....although it is not.

« **Reply #4 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:54:52 PM »

Is it West of the other course?

« **Reply #5 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:01:03 PM »

I think I'm understanding the hints.

Does anyone else think the first two holes pictured--the par 3 and the short par 4--might be dismissed if they were built today? The par 3 . . . just another dropshot, par 3. The par 4 . . . gimmicky, too short. Maybe we're just too damned critical these days.

« **Reply #6 on:** October 05, 2006, 06:48:05 PM »

Tim,

Those holes are consecutive. Here's a picture of the hole after that!

Definitely wouldn't be built these days!

Looking up from the tee

Looking back toward the tee from the green (prior green in view)

« **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2006, 07:08:51 PM »

Quote from: Kyle Harris on October 05, 2006, 06:48:05 PM

Tim,

Those holes are consecutive. Here's a picture of the hole after that!

Definitely wouldn't be built these days!

Kyle,

I'm sure you're right. I guess I was making a further point though--if those holes were built today, they'd be criticized, even by this enlightened group. Let's say Art Hills designed these holes (for some reason, the short par 4 after the par 3 reminds me of a Hills hole). Even taking Glenn Spencer out of the equation, I believe they would be criticized along the lines of what I suggested above. I know others have made this point before, but it does seem like we cut the older architects a lot of slack as compared to the contemporary ones.

« **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2006, 07:14:14 PM »

Quote from: Tim Pitner on October 05, 2006, 07:08:51 PM

Quote from: Kyle Harris on October 05, 2006, 06:48:05 PM
Tim,

Those holes are consecutive. Here's a picture of the hole after that!

Definitely wouldn't be built these days!

Kyle,

I'm sure you're right. I guess I was making a further point though--if those holes were built today, they'd be criticized, even by this enlightened group. Let's say Art Hills designed these holes (for some reason, the short par 4 after the par 3 reminds me of a Hills hole). Even taking Glenn Spencer out of the equation, I believe they would be criticized along the lines of what I suggested above. I know others have made this point before, but it does seem like we cut the older architects a lot of slack as compared to the contemporary ones.

Tim,

I would venture that a lot of the modern golf criticism lies in the character of the holes that isn't necessarily shown in pictures - of either Art Hills or an old dead guy. Green contour, context within the routing and subtle things like how the features are integrated with a green site or sight line are most certainly not what they used to be, nor is the "fun" factor.

From the view one picture, yes, you are correct. This is why I try to refrain from critiquing a hole based on one picture. However, with adequate context, I feel the criticism may be warranted. I can't say I've EVER played a routing that used the property as effectively as this one.

A picture will pique my curiousity though.

« **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:15:51 PM »

Kyle

its eastern sibling is a basket-case!

Similar colouring used on both courses although this one carries the flag - a mixture of white, flame red/orange and deep red. For tee markers, pins and flags (??). One nine's flags (??) are the flame red, the other nine is the deep red. Subtle, but there I think.

Here are some interesting bunkers on this shorter course (?6000 yards).

And a downhill par 3 (another one)

And a hole more akin to its eastern sibling

This one is for John Kavanaugh from a thread ealier this year re fans for greens. Here is one of the green's fans iinbuilt on the short par 4 at the bottom of the valley (Kyle has it pictured above). I can imagine how steamy this area can get in summer in this valley.

James B

« **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:44:22 AM »

Which course is this?

« **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2006, 01:04:13 AM »

Had the chance to play there last week. Awesome.

« **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2006, 05:26:38 AM »

This is Merion West.

First picture is of the Par 3 Sixth Hole, playing about 110 yards straight downhill.

Followed by the short Par 4 Seventh.

The next two photos are of the 11th hole, which is definitely in my Top 18 that I have played.

The other hole's pictures that I posted were the short, uphill Par 4 Eigth.

James Bennett posted shots of the long, downhill Par 3 Fourth Hole, the sweepingly long Par 4 Fifth, and the 1st Green.

« **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2006, 02:37:09 PM »

Here are my versions of James Bennett's pictures:

1st Hole, Par 4:

4th Hole, Par 3:

5th Hole, Par 4:

« **Reply #14 on:** October 06, 2006, 02:46:56 PM »

So to your original question Kyle, I would say a handful of all-world holes (which Merion West certainly has) along with a solid rest of the course is a decent definition of golfing gem. The hidden part might not apply just because of its Big Brother although how many non-locals have actually seen the place?

Once the quality of the course is determined, what makes a course a hidden gem?

« **Reply #15 on:** October 06, 2006, 02:56:12 PM »

Jim,

I think one of the big facts that "hides" this course is the scorecard yardage of 5989 yards from the back tees. I feel the great majority of golfers will immediately turn their nose up at that.

The aerial is less than inspiring as well and it took me driving past the 7th hole on Ellis Road to actually realize the course was on a GREAT piece of property.

However, how many courses have golfers hitting 5-iron, SW, 3-iron, and 9-iron into the par 3s?

How many courses have par 4s where TRAJECTORY on the tee shot is just as important as distance like the 5th, 8th, 11th, and 18th at Merion West?

Both par 5s are reachable, but with devilish greens and angles that make bogey just as easy to make as birdie.

« **Reply #16 on:** October 06, 2006, 03:05:33 PM »

Kyle, I agree, the course is really awesome. I think it's easily underestimated purely based on the yardage, as you said. I have not played the course in 10 years or more but always thought it was really cool. I sit hidden because people underestimate it or because not many people give it much consideration because of the East Course?

« **Reply #17 on:** October 06, 2006, 03:09:03 PM »

Jim,

Probably a little of both, with your second reason being the bigger of the two. Having Merion East as your "sister" course is hard to live up to.

Not being that in tune with the GAP schedule, are any events the GAP hosts that rotate held there? Team matches maybe? Am I correct in assuming that's how most of the golfers in the region see other clubs and if so, could it simply be lack of exposure in that regard?

« **Reply #18 on:** October 06, 2006, 03:21:52 PM »

The club used to host an invitational called the Hugh Wilson. It has been postponed due to numerous other outside events on the coming calendars (US Am and Open) that take such a toll on golf courses. Up until about '93 or '94 the Hugh Wilson was 54 holes better-ball with the first day on the East, the second day on the West and the third day back to the East. I played that format once but did play from '95 -'99 after they switched to an individual format, but that was held completely on the East.

The 2007 Philadelphia Open is scheduled for Merion East. It's a one day 36 hole event so there will not be the need for two courses as only 60 players are in the field. Every few years the club hosts one event or another and occassionally the West is used, but understandably, if the GAP is going to Merion they would probably prefer to play the East so it's just a matter of availability. I don't know much about their team match schedule, but instinct tells me they would use the East at every opportunity because of the home field advantage.

« **Reply #19 on:** October 06, 2006, 08:49:54 PM »

ok...here's a quiz for the detailed eyes here..

On Kyle's pics, which is the only bunker that looks different in style from the others?

« **Reply #20 on:** October 06, 2006, 10:32:51 PM »

Right greenside on #5?

Have they recently gone to a fairway cut on the approach to five? Looks good. Wasn't that green entirely ringed with rough? Could be another hole of which I'm thinking.

« **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2006, 10:47:16 PM »

these pics bring back great memories of teeing off at 11:00am on caddy day and then finishing sometimes up to 54 holes by dusk, all walking. This was a great course to learn to play on. with many eagles (six different holes) and many X's. played it over 100 times

but i also believe that there are several other courses that could also be put in this categorie. under 6,000 yrds. but loads of history and fun. from my experience ther are three that i would throw out right away from my working experiences. all in the general phila. area

pocono manor
paxon hollow
buck hill falls

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