[George Pazin]

My interest in architecture stems from a naive dream. I used to think someday I'd be able to build my own course ala Crump or Fownes. It's a dream that has long since given way to reality, but here are some of the characteristics of my dream course, which I still fantasize about while loading t shirts of the Super Bowl winning Steelers :

- Functional, but discerning, width: The whole course will be mowed down to fairway height - not Augusta fairway height, but short grass nonetheless. Will it make the course too easy? See next point.

- Angled greens with a good bit of contour/slope: I don't know if this will be sufficient to challenge Tiger, but it will be more than enough to challenge me and my guests! Coupled with the bone-dry conditions (can't afford irrigation! , I think it will keep things interesting.

- No water reasonably in play: My biggest pet peeve on any course. Sure it artificially inflates scores, but that's not what my course is about! I believe in the recovery shot. Seve will love my course (and be welcome to play it anytime!). Similarly, there will be virtually no trees!

- No forced carries: but many heroic carries! In other words, there will be an option to use putter off the tee, if so desired, but there will also be looooooong, Matt Wardian carries that will reward the golfer with an advantageous position.

- No elevated tees!: Screw the golfer who wants to see everything! The folks playing my course will have a few cracks at it, so whatever they miss the first time, they'd better pick up on the next. For this reason, I'll also add no bulldozing to avoid blindness.

I'll also throw out some generally accepted things that I couldn't care less about:

1) Par 3s that box the compass - Is the wind in your area so uniform that this really matters? Are you so good at reading the wind that you find par 3s in the same direction boring? Not in my experience on the first count, and I doubt it on the second (unless your name is Tiger Woods - who will be welcome at my course! Tiger and all of our foreign posters are all honorary members - the rest of you have to suck up Not to me, but someone of my choosing).

2) Using every club in the bag - I play the game inconsistently enough that this is highly overrated. I'd rather a course offer me the option of a high soft 7 iron and a low running 7 iron on consecutive par 3s than offer me a stock 4 iron and a stock 9 iron, one on each nine.

3) Dictated shots: It will be up to the golfer, not the architect (or Hootie Johnson ), to decide how he will play each hole. I flat out don't care if you hit half lob wedge into my par 4 that I'm hitting a hybrid into, and I similarly don't care if you're left with a fairway wood while I'm smacking my 8 iron!

I'll share some more characteristics later, but I'll leave you with two questions:

1) Would you want to play my course?

2) What characteristics would your course possess?

[Tony_Muldoon]

- Angled greens

Great call George.  I don't know why this isn't discussed more on GCA.  I have a pipe dream of my own.  I know of a pay and play course, close to London, on a great piece of free draining land, that is totally charmless.  A qucik fix would be to realine the greens so that instead of being faced with 18 ovals you have some greens you have to think about.  Once I win the lottery you're the first GCA'er I'll invite.

[tonyt]

Would I want to play your course?
In a heartbeat.

And you'd have reciprocal rights with mine, which espouses much of the qualities you've mentioned.

The architect will be told that I don't care where the ninth green and tenth tee are on the property, as I want the routing and design to aspire to being the best the property offers, without the constraints of practicality.

Same goes for clubhouse location, par of the course (and each nine), and hole types and lengths that may be consecutive. If the archie finds two identical length par 3s that are world class but they would be consecutive, just do it man, rather than satisfy the card Nazis (welcome at my club if they shut up) by replacing them with two lesser holes.

And my course would definitely have a nine hole par 3 course (fully constructed and nothing token about it), with an average length of around 120-130 yards per hole and a couple under 100 yards.

[Dave_Miller]

My interest in architecture stems from a naive dream. I used to think someday I'd be able to build my own course ala Crump or Fownes. It's a dream that has long since given way to reality, but here are some of the characteristics of my dream course, which I still fantasize about while loading t shirts of the Super Bowl winning Steelers :

- Functional, but discerning, width: The whole course will be mowed down to fairway height - not Augusta fairway height, but short grass nonetheless. Will it make the course too easy? See next point.

- Angled greens with a good bit of contour/slope: I don't know if this will be sufficient to challenge Tiger, but it will be more than enough to challenge me and my guests! Coupled with the bone-dry conditions (can't afford irrigation! , I think it will keep things interesting.

- No water reasonably in play: My biggest pet peeve on any course. Sure it artificially inflates scores, but that's not what my course is about! I believe in the recovery shot. Seve will love my course (and be welcome to play it anytime!). Similarly, there will be virtually no trees!

- No forced carries: but many heroic carries! In other words, there will be an option to use putter off the tee, if so desired, but there will also be looooooong, Matt Wardian carries that will reward the golfer with an advantageous position.

- No elevated tees!: Screw the golfer who wants to see everything! The folks playing my course will have a few cracks at it, so whatever they miss the first time, they'd better pick up on the next. For this reason, I'll also add no bulldozing to avoid blindness.

I'll also throw out some generally accepted things that I couldn't care less about:

1) Par 3s that box the compass - Is the wind in your area so uniform that this really matters? Are you so good at reading the wind that you find par 3s in the same direction boring? Not in my experience on the first count, and I doubt it on the second (unless your name is Tiger Woods - who will be welcome at my course! Tiger and all of our foreign posters are all honorary members - the rest of you have to suck up Not to me, but someone of my choosing).

2) Using every club in the bag - I play the game inconsistently enough that this is highly overrated. I'd rather a course offer me the option of a high soft 7 iron and a low running 7 iron on consecutive par 3s than offer me a stock 4 iron and a stock 9 iron, one on each nine.

3) Dictated shots: It will be up to the golfer, not the architect (or Hootie Johnson ), to decide how he will play each hole. I flat out don't care if you hit half lob wedge into my par 4 that I'm hitting a hybrid into, and I similarly don't care if you're left with a fairway wood while I'm smacking my 8 iron!

I'll share some more characteristics later, but I'll leave you with two questions:

1) Would you want to play my course?

2) What characteristics would your course possess?

George:
Sound lik my kind of golf course.
Fairways and Greens,
Dave

[Mike Nuzzo]

Come on down to Texas ... your course is almost finished....

[JMorgan]

My interest in architecture stems from a naive dream. I used to think someday I'd be able to build my own course ala Crump or Fownes. It's a dream that has long since given way to reality, but here are some of the characteristics of my dream course, which I still fantasize about while loading t shirts of the Super Bowl winning Steelers :

- Functional, but discerning, width: The whole course will be mowed down to fairway height - not Augusta fairway height, but short grass nonetheless. Will it make the course too easy? See next point.

- Angled greens with a good bit of contour/slope: I don't know if this will be sufficient to challenge Tiger, but it will be more than enough to challenge me and my guests! Coupled with the bone-dry conditions (can't afford irrigation! , I think it will keep things interesting.

- No water reasonably in play: My biggest pet peeve on any course. Sure it artificially inflates scores, but that's not what my course is about! I believe in the recovery shot. Seve will love my course (and be welcome to play it anytime!). Similarly, there will be virtually no trees!

- No forced carries: but many heroic carries! In other words, there will be an option to use putter off the tee, if so desired, but there will also be looooooong, Matt Wardian carries that will reward the golfer with an advantageous position.

- No elevated tees!: Screw the golfer who wants to see everything! The folks playing my course will have a few cracks at it, so whatever they miss the first time, they'd better pick up on the next. For this reason, I'll also add no bulldozing to avoid blindness.

I'll also throw out some generally accepted things that I couldn't care less about:

1) Par 3s that box the compass - Is the wind in your area so uniform that this really matters? Are you so good at reading the wind that you find par 3s in the same direction boring? Not in my experience on the first count, and I doubt it on the second (unless your name is Tiger Woods - who will be welcome at my course! Tiger and all of our foreign posters are all honorary members - the rest of you have to suck up Not to me, but someone of my choosing).

2) Using every club in the bag - I play the game inconsistently enough that this is highly overrated. I'd rather a course offer me the option of a high soft 7 iron and a low running 7 iron on consecutive par 3s than offer me a stock 4 iron and a stock 9 iron, one on each nine.

3) Dictated shots: It will be up to the golfer, not the architect (or Hootie Johnson ), to decide how he will play each hole. I flat out don't care if you hit half lob wedge into my par 4 that I'm hitting a hybrid into, and I similarly don't care if you're left with a fairway wood while I'm smacking my 8 iron!

I'll share some more characteristics later, but I'll leave you with two questions:

1) Would you want to play my course?

2) What characteristics would your course possess?

There's nothing naive about that dream, George.  I'd play your course, but you should probably keep the fees below $100 and make it public.

Here's one of 18 holes from my American Notts meets North Berwick:







I'll let you know if they build it.  You can play free anytime.  

 

[John Foley]

George,

I love it. No water & not a tree at the place.

Count me in as a big supporter of what you wrote especially the every club in the bag line. If I want to hot different clubs, I'll pay different tee's.

[Tim Taylor]

How much is the initiation and the monthly dues? Is there a wait list?

James Morgan, I see that dogs are allowed at your course. I approve.

Tim

[James Bennett]

George

As a foreign poster (I think the US Immigration regards me as an alien or something similar), I am happy to accept the special membership offer.  I would be happy to wear a GCA shirt on such an occasion, even in cool weather IF I HAD ONE!  Even a Pittsburgh Steelers shirt (perhaps for the replay in the afternoon.

Just kidding George - it does sound like a great course though. And those Steelers have always been a cool team - not as cool as the Packers WERE (I would have said ARE, but I am worried about this season which is looking like a short one).

James B

[George Pazin]

James B, it will take me awhile to stock the pro shop, but the first few shirts are reserved for you. Thanks for the Job-like patience.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts. My dream always helps me get through the day, even if it remains forever a dream.

I had some things to add, but I'm blanking on them right now.

[Dan Kelly]

George --

Would I want to play your club?

That would entirely depend on whom I'd have to (or get to) suck up to!

The course sounds like good fun.

Dan

PS: Trees and water are OK by me -- so long as they promote thoughtful play.

[BCrosby]

George -

Where do I sign up?

The course you describe is actually very close to ANGC circa 1934 with the exception of three water carries. All three of those are with short, lofted clubs unless you dare to reach two par 5's with your second shot.

Whether or not you ever get to build your course, A. MacK are B. Jones are toasting you in golf architecture heaven. (Are alcoholic beverges permitted past the Pearly Gates?)

Bob

[James Bennett]

George

what would your model clubhouse be for this fine course?  Size, style, presence?  I have my favourite.

James B

[Lou_Duran]

George,

Can I get comped?  If affirmative, then the answer is yes.

The thought of fairway level tees is something that's intriqued me for a long time.  Ditto for greens which flow right from the ground.

I like water features, specially running creeks, so the waterless course is less appealing.  I also like trees in the periphery of holes, and a few not far from the turning points of fairways.

I also like sand bunkers, large but not so deep near or in fairways long away from the greens, and smaller but deeper as one gets closer.

Boxing the compass on par 3s is less important than offering different challenges.  I like a very short and a very long par 3, with a couple in the middle.  The middle length ones should run in opposite directions for the wind effect.

Finally, I like a course which penalizes Matt Ward.  It is just not right that someone near my age can hit the ball so damn long.

Oh, I am not real big on heavlily contoured greens.  Give me some nice bent greens running about 10' with subtle, low-scale contouring, and a bit of deception relative to the surrounds and I am a happy camper.

[paul cowley]

George....don't stop growing up .

[Jason Blasberg]

1) Would you want to play my course?

2) What characteristics would your course possess?

George:

My home course plays to about 70% of what you say above, say the bit about rough and trees, but the later is being worked on rather well.  

There are a couple of elevated tees but they play from natural ridge lines and work well.  

Besides, the green contouring makes up for all of that!!

Par 3 orientation:

Caveat is I'm no Lou Duran when it comes to sense of direction and I'm a South Shore boy at heart so my direction is going off of the Empire State building and an old aerial, but I'll get a compass out there and revise as necessary:

Par 3: 220 yards,mostly to the west

Par 3: 180 yards, mostly to the southeast

Par 3: 160 yards, mostly to the north

Par 3: 120 yards, mostly to the west, southwest

[Rick Shefchik]

George - I'd love to play your course, but I do have a question. If there's no rough, no water, no trees and no forced carries (fine with me on all counts), where do the heoric carries come in? What are you heroically carrying over?

[George Pazin]

Jason, just to clarify, I wouldn't avoid boxing the compass on the par 3s, it is just well down the list of priorities. If it were to happen. it would probably be a happy accident.

Lou, you don't even need to suck up.

James B, I'm leaning towards a big old country home type of clubhouse.

and paul and Mike, you guys can be part of my architectural cadre, just like Crump had his gang.

I can't decide who will actually do the design work that I will take credit for.

 

[George Pazin]

George - I'd love to play your course, but I do have a question. If there's no rough, no water, no trees and no forced carries (fine with me on all counts), where do the heroic carries come in? What are you heroically carrying over?

Bunkers, mounds, ridges, that sort of thing.

[Dan Kelly]

George - I'd love to play your course, but I do have a question. If there's no rough, no water, no trees and no forced carries (fine with me on all counts), where do the heroic carries come in? What are you heroically carrying over?

Bunkers, mounds, ridges, that sort of thing.

They don't make heroism like they used to!

P.S. Just remembered one characteristic of my course (which WOULD have some elevated tees, by the way -- because I like elevated tees on windy sites ... which, of course, is the sort of site I'd seek):

My course would have a par-3 requiring (insofar as a course can require anything) a wood off the tee -- a driver from the back tee. It would have a huge green, with no bunkers around it. (Everyone should have a 50-yard putt sometime in his life.)

I'd leave plenty of room behind the tee, to accommodate its lengthening as technology requires.

[Doug Ralston]

 

To quote Daffy Duck: "Hol-old still stomach .... don't turn over now!"

No water, no trees ........ sheesh! And talk about the bandwagon effect.

Doug

P.S,: Well, ok, if the doctor said I needed some Sun.

[JR Potts]

George:

I like your course.  In fact, I will take your course, bring it to my neck of the woods, then add some creeks (I love creeks that meander through courses) and some trees (not a lot....but some).

[George Pazin]

George - I'd love to play your course, but I do have a question. If there's no rough, no water, no trees and no forced carries (fine with me on all counts), where do the heroic carries come in? What are you heroically carrying over?

Bunkers, mounds, ridges, that sort of thing.

They don't make heroism like they used to!

You're a clever guy - how's that working out for you?

 

Doug, just to clarify, I disliked water and trees on a golf course well before I stumbled across this site.

Ryan, I like meandering creeks too - if I did have water on my course, that's the sort I'd have.

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