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John_McMillan

How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« on: September 25, 2006, 10:01:58 AM »
Since there's little chance that I'll be called to actually test my theories, I can be particularly bold in their construction.  If I were the captain of the US Ryder Cup team in 2008, here are four changes that I would make to turn around the dismal performance of the US team.

(1)  No nostalgic dinner before the event, no "team" uniforms.

Bob Rotella is fond of quoting psychologist William James, who says in summary that, "people become, more or less, what they think of themselves."  When you continue to repeat what has led to failure, you plant the first seed for repeating failure.  The US team needs a new experience at the Ryder Cup - and one which is not connected to the failures and blow-outs of the recent years.  The nostalgic team dinner contains a turn around the table where each veteran relates how important the Ryder Cup is, and then the US team plays over the next 3 days as if the event were merely an exhibition.  It seems that what has become more important is relating to others that the event is important, than actually going out and posting performance.  The world rankings and Ryder Cup points which determine team make-up are earned through individual play.  Perhaps allowing players to dress as they played while winning major championships will create a level of reinforcement for them when they play during the Ryder Cup.

(2)  Get the player's wives and celebrities outside of the ropes.

I attended the first day of play at Oakland Hills in 2004 (the worst day in US Ryder Cup history).  One thing that struck me as a spectator was the arrival, before the players, of the wives "entourage."  This is not a coronation, this is not a prom dance, this is not the academy awards.  This is a sporting event.  The focus of the competition should be on the players, and on the performance they are able to create on the golf course. The wives exist mainly outside the ropes at the Masters, the US Open, the British Open and the PGA.  If the Ryder Cup is a competition comparable to these events, it should be conducted with a focus comparable to these events.  I understand that it is enjoyable for the players and the wives, but it has moved the Ryder Cup closer to the exhibition that the Home Run derby is for Major League baseball players (wives and kids on the field), than the serious competition the World Series is (wives and kids in the stands).

(3)  Create a challenge for Tiger

The world's most dominant player has a Ryder Cup team record that does not match his world ranking.  The US has gone through several theories in partnering Tiger, the most recent trying to create a "Super-team" with Tiger and Phil in 2004, and Tiger and Furyk in 2006.  I'd try pairing Tiger with a Ryder Cup rookie, and send the implicit (or maybe explicit) message, "Tiger, it's up to you to step up and carry this pairing to victory.  You're the #1 player in the world, play to your ranking."  It also has the benefit of potentially taking some pressure of a weaker player.  Instead of having to play the match of his life, he just has to contributre on a couple holes - because he's playing with Tiger Woods.

(4)  Make capitain's picks for the team which understand the nature of the competition.

Fourballs are about making birdies, foursomes are about matching playing styles.  Neither has much to do with whether a player can post a 72-hole stroke play score - which determines whether a player finishes 10th, 11th or 12th on the Ryder Cup point totals.  US Captains seem locked into making their picks to "reward" players - either lifetime achievement awards (Curtis Strange) or current year achievement (picking the 11th and 12th rated players).  The goal of a Capitain's pick is to put points on the board.  In particular, it is hard for a Capitain's pick to put points on the board when he is not on the golf course, which is where captain's pick Scott Verplank found himself for much of this year's Ryder Cup.  One of Lehman's explanations was that Verplank was a shorter hitter, and did not match well with the long course (and wet conditions) at the K-Club.  If that's the case, then why pick him in the first place?  A player who will post 9 birdies, and 9 "x's" is the perfect fourball partner - but is also not going to last very long on the PGA tour.  The Captain who has the guts to pick this type of player for the Ryder Cup team is also the Captain who can bring home a Ryder Cup trophy for the US.

cary lichtenstein

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 10:41:45 AM »
I'll add my 2 cents here:

Give the captain 7 picks instead of 2 and let him pick guys who have that killer instint like Raymond Floyd.

Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Brad Klein

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006, 10:59:29 AM »
Captain's picks? How about a captain's veto -- the right to toss one of the players who has qualified on points!

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 11:06:08 AM »
John,  Nice analysis.  I particularly agree about the wives and celebs.  Why should Michael Jordan get a better view than a spectator who has paid good money.  Perhaps the death of Darren's wife did spur on the home side on this occasion, but it must be awful to have to parade your wife or girlfriend in front of the world's press, so that they can criticise their fashion sense (NONE when it comes to uniform) and compare skirt lengths.  But what of those who are in marital difficulties, or those who will never marry?  Who will be the first Ryder Cupper to turn up with his male partner?  If there are homosexual bishops, there must be a few homosexual golfers.....
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 11:06:26 AM by Mark_Rowlinson »

Jerry Kluger

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 11:15:26 AM »
Okay Cary and you other guys; I'll give you all captain's picks and you tell me who you're going to select that is going to make such a difference.  Maybe take 6 guys off the Nationwide Tournament and tell them if they get 2 or more points they automatically earn a spot on the PGA Tour.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 11:26:29 AM »
I don't think it matters who's on the U.S. team, I don't think they can win it no matter what.  Not in the next 10-12 years, I'll predict.

I think the only way the U.S. has a chance is if it went back to U.S. vs. GB&I.

Another possibility:  stop the President's Cup and have a Europe vs. ROW Cup in those years.  Might add more to U.S.'s fire having only 1 every 2 years and might take some fire (a stretch, I know) out of Euro's.

John_McMillan

Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 11:54:49 AM »
I don't think it matters who's on the U.S. team, I don't think they can win it no matter what.  Not in the next 10-12 years, I'll predict.

Scott,

Why do you think there is NO way for a team which potentially starts out with Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson and Jim Furyk to win a golf competition?  

Here is the GB&I team that competed in the 1975 Ryder Cup (a 21-11 US win) -
Brian Barnes, Maurice Bembridge, Eamonn Darcy, Bernard Gallacher, Tommy Horton, Brian Huggett, Guy Hunt, Tony Jacklin, Christy O'Connor Jr, John O'Leary, Peter Oosterhuis, Norman Wood.

You can see how that team had problems matching up with Jack Nickluas, Johnny Miller and Lee Trevino.  The current US team has talent at the top that the 1975 GB&I team lacked, and there should be at least a theoretical way for the US to compete with the Euros.  

Anthony Butler

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 11:55:43 AM »
I don't think it matters who's on the U.S. team, I don't think they can win it no matter what.  Not in the next 10-12 years, I'll predict.

I think the only way the U.S. has a chance is if it went back to U.S. vs. GB&I.

Another possibility:  stop the President's Cup and have a Europe vs. ROW Cup in those years.  Might add more to U.S.'s fire having only 1 every 2 years and might take some fire (a stretch, I know) out of Euro's.

I've got an idea... how about thinking of ways to be more competitive before you're getting the snot beat out of you? That, I am afraid is not an American trait right now... the world has passed by the US in so many ways right now, and we are only just becoming aware of it. America is struggling to redefine their ability to 'lead' in many areas where the world has simply tuned us out.
Next!

Lawrence Largent

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 03:20:30 PM »
I used to get really involved with these cup matches and the courses the tour played. A friend of mine whose father helped run the Senior Tour Championship enlightened me on some things.  The Ryder Cup and the PGA Tour are about one thing MONEY!  Everyone I know says those guys should care more because there playing for there country. There not playing for there country there playing for the PGA to make tons of money and the American players know that. The European players if they make the team then the European tour pays all there travel expenses to Euro events for the next two years. Phil Mickelson, Jim Furyk, and even Tiger should be embarrassed at there performances but I don't think they are cause they will move on to the next event and win a cool million and who cares. I'm a huge Davis Love fan and a friend of mine asked do you think he was upset at not being picked, No I replied I'm sure he would have been happy if he was but he got to stay home last week be with his family count his money and not take the beating the American players will the next month. If the truth really be known Tiger and Phil for sure would not play in this event if they had there choice what reason do they have to waste a week of there time for no profit and to get slammed by the media.

Lawrence






Anthony Butler

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 03:52:56 PM »
I used to get really involved with these cup matches and the courses the tour played. A friend of mine whose father helped run the Senior Tour Championship enlightened me on some things.  The Ryder Cup and the PGA Tour are about one thing MONEY!  Everyone I know says those guys should care more because there playing for there country. There not playing for there country there playing for the PGA to make tons of money and the American players know that. The European players if they make the team then the European tour pays all there travel expenses to Euro events for the next two years. Phil Mickelson, Jim Furyk, and even Tiger should be embarrassed at there performances but I don't think they are cause they will move on to the next event and win a cool million and who cares. I'm a huge Davis Love fan and a friend of mine asked do you think he was upset at not being picked, No I replied I'm sure he would have been happy if he was but he got to stay home last week be with his family count his money and not take the beating the American players will the next month. If the truth really be known Tiger and Phil for sure would not play in this event if they had there choice what reason do they have to waste a week of there time for no profit and to get slammed by the media.

Lawrence

There's another sporting event where people compete for their country in all sorts of events and never make a dime while everyone else cashes in.  Little thing called the Olympic Games, and so far no one has used the excuse "I didn't try hard because my Olympic Committee is making all the money". BTW, none of these Olympic athletes have their own planes to fly around in... this one goes on the pile of all the other excuses being offered up in the last 24 hours.

I didn't like it when the International Team lost the last Presidents' Cup match, but it wasn't because anyone knew the course any better, the grass was too long or too short. The dog didn't eat Gary Player's lucky charm either... guys like Chris DiMarco made some putts right at the pointy end of some matches and it was all over. What ever happened to the old golf maxim 'It's not how. It's how many."

 I guess it only works when you win. :'(
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 03:59:13 PM by Anthony Butler »
Next!

Philippe Binette

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 03:55:32 PM »
The Ryder Cup and the Majors...

is about raising your level of play for the occasion.

when you put guys on the team who only have raised the level of play of their game to win the Reno-Tahoe Open.... well they're not ready.

I'd rather put a guy like Tom Watson playing than the good players out there

Taylor, Henry, Wetterich... might beat Watson every time on a 72 hole event (which is probably not true anyway...) but on a Ryder Cup intensity moment, Watson would up-lift his focus and be better than those guys.

Rising for the moment, that is why Nicklaus won in 86...
why Stewart was always good in the US Open...
why Tiger is winning majors...

There's a lot of good young american players... just not a lot of great ones when it really counts  

Aaron Katz

Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 04:17:34 PM »
Davis Love said he cried when Lehman told him he wasn't a captain's pick.  Brett Wetterich, Lucas Glove, and Zack Johnson all attributed their poor play at the end of the season to trying "too hard" to capute a Cup spot.  These guys care about more than money.  If it was all about the cash, guys like Phil, Tiger, & Co. would play in events like Reno-Tahoe Open type events and clean up.  Any one of the top players could easily win $10 million EVERY year if he scheduled an additional 7 or 8 "soft field" tournaments.  

I'm sure that the Ryder Cup players aren't happy that the PGA of America is cleaning up at their "expense," but they also must know that the PGA will be doing some good things with all that money.  And I don't think that they would try less than their hardest to spite the PGA.  These guys care about winning way too much.  WAY too much.  

When GB & I was getting the crap kicked out of them every two years, nobody said that Jacklin or Oostie didn't care enough.  It was always about the quality of players.  And right now, Europe is simply better 4 through 12.  And it's not even close IMO.  I don't consider Toms, DiMarco, or Campbell world-class players, and they were our 4, 5, and 6 men.

Guy Nicholson

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2006, 04:24:42 PM »
"Congratulations to all of you for making the U.S. Ryder Cup team. Thanks for making the conference call - I'm currently relaxing on my hammock in the Bahamas.

Right, first things first. This year, we're not jetting off to Europe to bond over craft beers. We're not getting matching rain suits or any other swag. And our sponsors have decided to pay you based on performance, just like a Tour event. Don't like it? Fine - you truly don't have to be here.

You're being given the chance to be here because you're the best players our country has. That said, you are the underdogs in this event. I'm not just saying that to motivate you or to lower expectations in the press. Face the facts: You're up against a team of guys who hit the ball as well as you (just look at the world rankings, not a lot of Nationwide tour guys there) and to boot, they've grown up playing fourballs and foursomes and match play. You haven't. So you're at a disadvantage.

I'm also not going to make you eat, sleep and practise the same way. You don't do that normally, so why force it on you now? But I do have some suggestions for the coming weeks. You want to get better at match play and foursomes? Practise it. Maybe even together (wow, novel idea) but that's up to you. I'm not taking the heat for you.

That especially goes for you, Tiger and Phil. Want to step up and silence the critics? I'm not going to guilt you into getting along or attending team bonding sessions. Up to you. You're the ones who look bad.

One more thing - when we get over there, try playing for yourselves. The Europeans aren't playing for their country - they aren't from the same one, in case you didn't notice. And yet they go out there, enjoy each other's company, back each other up, and actually look like they're enjoying being in a competition they worked two years to be in. You guys look like you're driving a tank through the Sunni triangle. It's just golf, dude."

Rick Shefchik

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2006, 05:13:32 PM »
Two ideas for the U.S. in 2008:

1. Less consultation with each other on the greens (Tiger and Furky -- that was a typo, but I think it fits -- looked like they were sucking the life out of each other while analyzing each others' putts. They didn't win all their tournaments that way, so why play that way now?)

2. More beer.

"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

John_McMillan

Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2006, 05:40:46 PM »
It was always about the quality of players.  And right now, Europe is simply better 4 through 12.

The biggest problem for the US team was at the top - not at the bottom - of their talent pool.  Tiger Woods and Jim Furyk were .500 (2 wins / 2 losses) as a team in fourball/foursome competition.  Phil Mickelson and Chris DiMarco were 0-2-1 as a team in fourball/foursome competition before Lehman finally scrapped that team and broke them up for the Saturday foursome competition.  

My biggest memory for the US in this tournament was Zach Johnson stepping up in Saturday's fourball and leading the Johnson/Verplank pairing to a 2 and 1 victory over Harrington and Stenson.  When you get a "gift" point like that from the bottom of your talent pool, the top of the pool needs to figure out some way to carry you to something other than a 4 point deficit entering singles play.

An interesting stat that I heard on Saturday's NBC telecast was that in previous Ryder Cups, in foursome competiton, Tiger's partner contributed more birdies than Tiger did.  There is no player, or combination of players, who should be out-birdieing Tiger over any period of time, over any course, under any conditions.  Tiger simply needs to step up his level of play in the Ryder Cup.

Phil Mickelson played in all 5 matches, and posted an 0-4-1 record for .5 points (including losing his singles match).  JJ Henry posted .5 points in singles play, and another 1 point in fourballs.  
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 05:43:18 PM by John_McMillan »

Scott Coan

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2006, 05:47:47 PM »
John - excellent analysis and I completely agree.  I would expand point (3) to include Mickelson & Furyk.  These guys need to be called on the carpet and shamed into playing to their abilities.

At the end of the day they are paid professional golfers and it is a bit silly to ask them to get all jingoistic for one week and carry the flag.

PAY THEM $250,000 PER POINT EARNED and something tells me Phil would have walked away with more than 1/2 point this week.

Top six players make the team on some refined points system and those 6 select the remaining 6 players they feel will help them WIN MORE MONEY.

The top players know who can make the putts when they need to.

Then I would get rid of the captain's position all together.  Sit them down in a room and tell them to get the pairings sorted amongst themselves.  

The PGA of America simply states that there's 28 points on offer fellas at $250,000 per point.  That's 7 million in their language.  Go get em.

And if you win the silly cup and bring it back where it rightfully belongs, each of you earn a $500,000 bonus on top of your points earned.

JOB DONE.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 06:02:02 PM by Scott Coan »

Lawrence Largent

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2006, 06:18:10 PM »
Now were talking Scott, I've always said offer 1 million to each teammate of the winning team and lets see who wins. I'll say it again its all about money if you don't think it is your silly. Why do the tourney's across the pond pay appearance fees. One more thing its amazing to me how Dimarco and Lehman get so much out of so little. Dimarco has won two lower tiered events and Lehman did win a major but only like 4 or 5 events. If these guys would have played in the 70's then we would not even know who they were. Its amazing how the marketing can affect there status.

Lawrence

Rick Shefchik

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2006, 06:24:49 PM »
One other idea:

How about playing the singles matches on Sunday in order of team (World) ranking?

In other words, two years from now our Number One (Tiger) plays their Number One (Sergio?); our number two (Mickelson?) plays their number two (Donald?), etc.

Isn't that what golf fans really want to see, rather than a random pairing of golfers with no inherent rivalries? Tiger vs. Karlsson was not compelling television (though, I admit, had Karlsson done the impossible and won the match, it would have been); Sergio vs. Cink was an anti-climax.

Would this proposal have changed the 2006 outcome? I doubt it. But it might have held viewers' attention deeper into Sunday's broadcast, and that might really become necessary if the current trend continues for a few more matches.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

George Pazin

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2006, 06:41:38 PM »
I think it's mighty presumptuous of anyone on here to say the US players didn't care, didn't try, need to raise their game, are only motivated by money, etc.

I think it also bespeaks a certain ignorant view of the game.

I don't know about you guys, but a lot of times, when I really care, and try my hardest, I play my worst. It's when I'm relaxed and don't care that I tend to play my best.

For anyone on the face of the earth to try to give Tiger Woods advice - and I mean anyone, even Jack - man, I don't even know where to start. The guy has won more majors than just about anyone, and at a faster rate than anyone period. I think he knows his game and how to prepare better than you or me (I know he knows it better than me).

The Euros played better. Maybe they were looser, maybe they were more focused, maybe they care more, and maybe, just maybe, they were simply better golfers on those 3 days.

You could just as easily flip the analysis around:

If the Euros can outplay the US in an event that they supposedly care more about, does the lack of wins in majors mean they don't care when they play in majors? Do they need to try harder? Raise their games more? Be more motivated by history and prestige and less by money?

Isn't it one helluva lot easier to simply say well played, Europe?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 06:42:07 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rick Shefchik

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2006, 07:04:02 PM »
Sure it is, George, but that's not the way Europe got out of the 50-year Ryder Cup hole they were in. They might have said, "Well played, U.S.A.", but they also worked like hell to find winning players, select the right captains, change their attitudes and raise their games. Eventually, it worked.

No reason the U.S. shouldn't do the same. We're just offering suggestions. :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 07:04:34 PM by Rick Shefchik »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tom_Doak

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2006, 09:44:05 PM »
Rick:

"Europe" was not in a 50-year Ryder Cup hole.  Great Britain & Ireland were.  So perhaps in the 1950's and 1960's most of the best players in Europe were from GB & I, anyway, but not a lot of European golfers got to hone their game in the 1940's if you know what I mean.

Since the overseas side expanded in 1975, the overall results have been fairly even (I'm sure someone will fill in the exact record), and a lot of the matches have been very exciting ... except the last two.


Tim Bert

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2006, 10:12:22 PM »
You need a bunch of rowdy, obnoxious, American types to get the job done.  When we got under the Euros skin by whooping it up and running across the green with the wives, we should have built on that rather than backed down and become apologetic.

Play slow.  Talk it up.  Bring back Justin Leonard even if he isn't playing well.  Whatever it takes.

We need some dudes like Daly, anyone named Bubba, anyone from the Kuehne family, maybe Jason Gore, and a couple guys from the Pinnacle Long Drive team.  Let's get some emotion out there.

John_Conley

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2006, 11:21:52 PM »
Gee Tim, let's go with players you absolutely cannot rely on in an event where players feel more pressure than they do in Majors.  That'll work.  If I were a Tour level player I would LOVE to draw Hank Kuehne or Bubba Watson.

Lehman is the captain and a big part of that duty was using his two captain's picks to find players that will help.  He did pretty well with Cink and Verplank.

The funny thing for me with all the expert commentary is that the prescription from many is for more emotional gutty players.  Shoot, if there is ONE guy I would have pegged to pull off some heroics it is DiMarco and he clearly failed to play to his potential.

These matches are won or lost depending on whether or not the players have good days.  All the preparation in the world doesn't offset a bad day on the course.

Tim Bert

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2006, 11:35:55 PM »
John,

It wouldn't be about the golf.  It would be about rattling the cages and removing the sportsmanship from the equation.  

Perhaps I didn't make the context clues, such as Pinnacle Long Drive team, quite clear enough to indicate that I wasn't completely serious in my post.

Just having a little fun, unlike the Americans on the Ryder Cup team.

John_Conley

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Re:How I would lead the US Ryder Cup team to victory in 2008
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2006, 11:44:51 PM »
Tim, John Daly has been "the people's choice" for a captain's pick for years.  The problem is he can never qualify on points.  The reason he can't qualify on points is that he's just way too erratic.  

The myth of 4-ball, and this runs from Tour pros to local amateurs, is that you want a guy "that makes a lot of birdies".  That is a euphemism for "he hasn't learned to manage his mistakes the way Tom Kite or Bernhard Langer do".  Give me David Toms and Steve Flesch all day.

Foursomes is FATAL if you have the bad shots of guys like Bubba Dickerson dragging you down.

I see nothing wrong with the qualifying process.  The US is in a little lull, but so was US male tennis post McEnroe and then we saw Chang, Martin, Wheaton, Courier, Agassi, and Sampras come on the scene at the same time.

The next team will hopefully have some players in their 20s.  Guys like O'Hair might do.  I'm not sure the US needs Hank Kuehne.

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