Can't decide where to join

[David Stamm]

Okay, here it goes. I spent this weekend playing at two courses at the clubs invitation because I'm thinking of joining a private club. The first course, which we'll call club A, is designed by a famous designer who occasionally gets ripped on this site. I did like the course, the members were great and I had a great time. The second course, which we'll call club B, was designed by a known architect, not nearly as known as the first, and where i live, frequently gets ripped by people, myself included, for his course designs. The thing is, I like course B. I don't typically like his courses, but I like this one, maybe a little more than the first, even though it's 600 yard shorter from the tips. Course B is 6400 yds. par 71 (it has 5 par3's). The other is well over 7000 yds. par 72. I'm not concerned about the length, I care about how fun it is and course B seems to be more fun. Course A costs 3 times as much to join and takes twice as long to get to. My question is, does anyone come across a design that you really like by  someone who in the past has designed courses that you just couldn't stand? I'm baffled, because i really like course B and I think as a newbie to this site, maybe i'm missing something here about this course. I'd like to think I try to give designers who in the past have designed courses I couldn't stand another chance. And I know if the people who live around where i live who are famaliar w/ these 2 courses knew i like course B a little bit better than course A, they'd say i was crazy and to join the course by the famous architect because "it's harder and longer." I really don't worry about how I "appear" to others, I'm not that type of person. I like what i like. I'm just concerned as a new arch. student and a green horn to the subject, am i missing something? If you want to email me privately about the names of the architects, I'll be happy to do so. Thanks.

[David Wigler]

David,

Joining a club means finding a course that you like enough to play significantly more than all other courses combined.  I would think that it makes not one ounce of difference what Tom Huckaby, Tom Paul, Tom Naccarato, Tom Macwood or any other Tom, Dick or Harry thinks about the designer.  

Kavanaugh belongs to a Fazio course and I envy the fact that he gets to play that every day.  I know a Ross course (Western) where i pity the members who have to play it every day.

If it meets the needs of your budget, your eye and your family, than you should join.

[John_Conley]

Course A was designed by Tom Fazio and Course B was designed by Damian Pascuzzo.

I'm reading your post and I think it is obvious you join B.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

A private club is more than a golf course. You failed to mention the people at Club B. You commented favorably on the people at Club A. Are the people at Club B equally favorable?

[David Stamm]

Steve, i don't know. I played at the crack of dawn by myself and never got a chance to meet any members. I wasn't trying to single them out at club A, I just never had anything to compare them to. I had to leave right after my round to meet my family somewhere.

[Tommy Williamsen]

David, I think there are a few considerations.  
Which course will you be happier playing in five years?
Which club would you rather take a freind or business associate?
How is the food?
Is one club in financial straights?
Which course has less play?  Can you leave work and just walk out and tee it up or do you have to get a tee time?
Most clubs will have a bunch of guys you can relate to.

[Dave_Miller]

Steve, i don't know. I played at the crack of dawn by myself and never got a chance to meet any members. I wasn't trying to single them out at club A, I just never had anything to compare them to. I had to leave right after my round to meet my family somewhere.

David:
Get to find out about the membership.  If you join and find you don't get along with anyone then you will not want to be around the club.
Also be sure it fits any other requirements such as what your family wants out of a club.
Fairways and Greens,
Dave

[Tom_Doak]

David:

Course A costs three times as much to belong to, you like course B better, and you can't decide which to join?

Sounds like you need to pay a hefty consulting fee to someone to help you decide!

[tlavin]

A private club is more than a golf course. You failed to mention the people at Club B. You commented favorably on the people at Club A. Are the people at Club B equally favorable?

A country club is decidedly more about the PEOPLE than the golf course.  If you know that you will be happier with the people at one club and happy enough with the course, go with the better people.  At the end of the day, you don't play with the golf course, you play with the members.

[John Kavanaugh]

If a course requests that your wife meets the membership committee...don't join.

[tlavin]

If a course requests that your wife meets the membership committee...don't join.

I was being interviewed for membership at a club a few years back and the other potential members had their wives with them.  I went into the room and the committee asked me where my wife was.  I told them I assumed she was either at home or out shopping or something.  They asked if she was coming to the meeting.  I told them they wouldn't meet her then and it would be unlikely that they would see her more than a couple times a year.  The chairman looked around and began a loop of high-fives.  "You're in!"  

That's the kind of club you want to join.

[wsmorrison]

"If a course requests that your wife meets the membership committee...don't join."

Why not, John.  What's inherently wrong with that, especially if you are looking for a family membership?

My wife was thrilled to meet the ladies membership committee it renewed old friendships, started some decidedly good new ones and was a very positive experience.

[John Kavanaugh]

Terry,

I had the same thing happen when I joined a club as a national member.  They said they like to have a little lunch with a guy and his wife and I told them we live too far away for her to ever come by the place.  I was in..

note:  I would have had to take a pass if they insisted as she did not know I was a member until I went to play in the member/guest and she asked me who I knew at the club...I don't ask her where her next mani/pedi is coming from.

[Aaron Katz]

Join whichever club has the course you would most like to tee off on at 6 pm on a Wednesday in August.  Factors to consider here:  (1)  How much fun do you have on the layout?  (2)  Is it the kind of place that will require tee times even on late weekday afternoons?  (3)  Do you enjoy playing alone, or do you want to always play with other members?  The latter requires consideration of how you like those other members.  (4)  What is the guest policy?  (5)  What is the pace of play, particularly for twilight golf, which is the most wonderful kind of golf IMO.  I'd love a club where I could go out at 6 pm on a long summer day and complete 18 holes.

[Dan_Callahan]

Throwing out all the other comparisons, the fact that course A is twice as far away would be the kicker for me. It is already hard enough to find time to play with all of the other demands of work and family. Even if course B was worse than Course A, it's being that much closer—and therefore that much easier to get to—is the most important detail.

I don't mind traveling to play great courses. For my home course, however, I want convenience, an open first tee, and a 3-hour round. In fact, a course could just about suck and I would have fun playing it if it was convenient to get to.

[Brian Joines]

I agree with the two posts above me. Being able to go out and play without having to worry about the course being slow and crowded is very important. At my home course I am able to play 18 holes after work all summer long. If I were to join a cclub that didn't have that option available, it would have to be one very spectacular golf course.

[John Kavanaugh]

"If a course requests that your wife meets the membership committee...don't join."

Why not, John.  What's inherently wrong with that, especially if you are looking for a family membership?

My wife was thrilled to meet the ladies membership committee it renewed old friendships, started some decidedly good new ones and was a very positive experience.

Wayne,

Knowing that I should always be careful for what I wish..I wish my wife had lady friends.  Raising me and the kids just don't leave time for such frivolous niceties.  Maybe someday..

[wsmorrison]

John,

While I don't always like hanging out with some of my wife's friends or their spouses, I've met enough interesting ladies that I enjoy the niceties at our club.  I like playing golf with everyone, women included.  The conversations are certainly of a different variety and that and the golf is often a nice change of pace.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wayne,

Out of respect for my wife I have an agreement with her that she is the only woman who I will spend four hours with doing anything.  I have not played a round of golf with another women outside of relatives in our 25 years of marriage.  So I can not speak to what I am missing.

I do often see guys out having fun with their wives on a Saturday or Sunday morning when I'm stuck playing for money with the same old male friends week after week and am a bit envious.  I have even sat at the bar on a week night having beers listening to the same old stories about the same old subjects that only guys talk about and wish I could get a womens perspective on world events.  It's getting deep...somebody throw me a rope..

[Pete Lavallee]

First off, Happy Birthday David!

One must be very careful when hanging around this site; you'll eventually have a hard time deciding for yourself what you like.  

I know it happened to me. I used to like playing the all new Ted Robinson courses around SD; there I admitted it, I hear that's the first step to recovery. Did I really like playing Ted's courses or did I just like playing new courses? I believe it was the latter as I found that I have zero interest in returning to any of them now.

My only question is: is course B fun because it's easy to score on, or because you get to play lots of different shots? I suspect you'll easily tire of  a course that doesn't offer a challange over time. Shouldn't the ideal course seem difficult and perplexing after the initial round? I would think that would be mandatory for making you want to show up and play it each day.

[Jay Flemma]

Happy Birthday David!

Join where you will be the happiest.  Follow your heart on that choice.

Are the members really fun and similar to you?  which is CLOSER so you can take advantage of the facilities more often?  Those are two key factors for me.

[cary lichtenstein]

John:

You don't know what you are missing

Cary

[David Stamm]

Pete, funny you should mention Ted Robinson. I don't want to offend other architects on this site by revealing course b's architect, but there it is. I too don't care for most of his work, but I played Vista Valley (Since you are from San Diego, you might know the course) and I liked it because it presented so many different looks throughout the round. After I played it, I thought no way did Robinson design this since it was so different from other designs of his. I guess I should divulge the other course. It's a RTJ sr. design called Pauma Valley. Since I'm new to this site, I hope I didn't break any unspoken rule about revealing the architects. If so, I apologize. And Tom Doak, I know the answer seems obvious, but around where I live, Robinson's designs are looked upon by a lot of golfers w/ disdain including myself. I just wasn't sure if I was educated enough in the subject of architecure to not see something in this design that maybe others did becuase I never hear anything mentioned about this course by the locals. I guess they figured if it was a robinson design, it must not be any good. Like I said, I love the subject of architecture, I'm just a green horn when it comes to the nuts and bolts.