[ChasLawler]

I too find the broad brush of bermuda is bad to be a bit over the top.

However, I did find a course in Virginia with bermuda greens.

Providence Golf Course

Edit: Thanks redanman.

Apparently Ron Whitten can't tell the difference either, because Providence definitely has bent greens – not Bermuda.

keep googling.....

[paul cowley]

Tom Tom Tom, you are THE classic.

....but back to the task at hand....all Matt's fuss over bermuda will soon be over....because I predict bermuda will become a grass of the past in the next 15 years or so, relaced in its domain by paspalum.
Tough stuff that sits up like zoysia and is being able to be cut lower and lower among other things .....and another thread.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Note also that Matt has not yet listed the Virginia courses with bermuda greens.  I would imagine that he is googling like crazy right now...

AG,

Perhaps those Bermuda Greens that Matt played in Virginia went to the same place as Matt's Golf Digest and Golfweek rater cards and of course that mysterious email that went to the General Manager of Lederock GC when Matt was suddenly unable to play. They all went into:

[Matt_Ward]

Don M:

I did qualify my comments and I did salute those superintendents who are able to overcome the demanding odds they face in the border regions where the turf issues are expecially trying. I did say as much. I just have no real desire to play off such turf unless it is prepared with a keen hand involved.

I simply don't favor slow bermuda which is overwatered -- ditto the same feelings I have against bent when H20 is applied too generously.

Mike Sweeney:

Very amusing but clearly misguided -- as per usual. Fiction, rather than facts, is always more convenient.

Contact the GM at Lederach and he will confirm what was forwarded because of situation involving my publisher's daughter. To make a light of a serious issue (car accident) speaks volumes to your inability to grasp the nature of what happened there.

In regards to the cheap shot Digest comment -- I have explained that previously -- about how the Digest tries to keep courses as "new" for second year reviews in the "best new" category. The situation with Golfweek also applies to others who provided solid efforts on the behalf of their ratings. Mike -- you used to be a bit more creative and accurate -- try to brush up on the facts before spouting again.

[TEPaul]

"For the record, my lawn here in Georgia is fescue and bluegrass, with not a speck of bermuda to be found.  Come on down; we'll sit on the porch and watch the world go by and the leaves change with a cold drink. "

A.G.

You're on Pal. And for the record, when you come up here to the sunlit uplands of life, the world is yours.  

[TEPaul]

"The only justice is we got to keep all of the good lookin' women."

JohnC;

You're right about that. There hasn't many men that worried me but I can't recall all that many Southern belles that didn't basically scare the shit outta me.  

[Mike_Young]

"We should have never air-conditioned the place, and we'd still be left alone."

Ah, Bullticky!

You can air condition the entire Old South. You can give us Northern cats all your women every night. You can tell us how sorry you are you started the God-Damned Civil War until you're green in the face (that sickly Bermuda green, BTW). You can apologize to our Black Brethern until all the hippos come home---it doesn't matter cuz there's not a damn thing anyone can do about the fact that God and The Fates saddled all you southern shmoos with Bermuda grass for the rest of time for these transgressions.

The fact is, we up here in the Old Union, have the bent grass, and you never will.  
 
 

TE,
Bent is definitely a better surface...but in order to play we have Bermuda..and it works but it does not allow us the world class courses one would have with bent and sand base....BUT those COTTON shirts you play in...well cotton is to bent as ultradwarf is to dri-fit....
Come on...enough of this Civil War stuff.....some facts....
1. we burned Atlanta ourselves
2. the greatest player ever grew up on bermuda in Atlanta
3. if Georgia Tech had been in existence we would have won the war....
4.  Georgia usually has more schools in the NCAA golf tourney than any other state and usually GT and UGA are ranked top 5.
5.  Because Southern men are better looking the region attracts better looking women....
6.  We like Neal Young's music but we "don't want him around"
7.  Bob Crosby was a Southern spy while at Harvard....Ole Miss has a dorm named after his family....
8.  Martha Burke doesn't like our grass either....
9. Most of my black friends come back to the South after living in the North

But a lot more guys are moving this way.

[John_Conley]

John

Regarding your post, each type of grass has its advantages and disadvantages.  Nothing worse than someone forcing the bent grass issue requiring fans, sub air and all that crap because they have so much in the way of trees, especially conifers making matters way worse.

Huh?  Has anyone advocated this?  It makes no sense to try growing Bent where it won't grow.

I played this morning on wonderful grasses in Minnesota.  Never is a well-maintained Florida course as enjoyable for me as a Midwestern course in good shape.

Mike Young says it is a better grass in his post.  Are you arguing this?  I can't stand the grasses in Florida, although the new strains of Bermuda have improved putting surfaces.  Still can't run a ball up onto the green though.

[John_Cullum]

"We should have never air-conditioned the place, and we'd still be left alone."

Ah, Bullticky!

You can air condition the entire Old South. You can give us Northern cats all your women every night. You can tell us how sorry you are you started the God-Damned Civil War until you're green in the face (that sickly Bermuda green, BTW). You can apologize to our Black Brethern until all the hippos come home---it doesn't matter cuz there's not a damn thing anyone can do about the fact that God and The Fates saddled all you southern shmoos with Bermuda grass for the rest of time for these transgressions.

The fact is, we up here in the Old Union, have the bent grass, and you never will.  
 
 

TE,
Bent is definitely a better surface...but in order to play we have Bermuda..and it works but it does not allow us the world class courses one would have with bent and sand base....BUT those COTTON shirts you play in...well cotton is to bent as ultradwarf is to dri-fit....
Come on...enough of this Civil War stuff.....some facts....
1. we burned Atlanta ourselves
2. the greatest player ever grew up on bermuda in Atlanta
3. if Georgia Tech had been in existence we would have won the war....
4.  Georgia usually has more schools in the NCAA golf tourney than any other state and usually GT and UGA are ranked top 5.
5.  Because Southern men are better looking the region attracts better looking women....
6.  We like Neal Young's music but we "don't want him around"
7.  Bob Crosby was a Southern spy while at Harvard....Ole Miss has a dorm named after his family....
8.  Martha Burke doesn't like our grass either....
9. Most of my black friends come back to the South after living in the North

But a lot more guys are moving this way.

And just to add to Mike Young's litany of our never ending over-achievements, they named a building after my family at West Point.

[TEPaul]

JohnC and MikeY----Very good. Very fine! I needed a good laugh today. And I suspected that slick-tongued Crosby was too good to be true.

[paul cowley]

BTW....just to keep the record straight;

I re enact the early American period of 1721 thru 1745....when things were simpler as in survival.

My kin wouldn't be eligible for reparations as most of them weren't here till after the 'War'.....engaged instead with the Brit Struggles.

...oh, and I find southern wimen be fine....jus fine

[Jim Nugent]

 Either that or this is Fate's way of telling all our Southern golfing Brethen that they shouldn't have started that God-damned Civil War. They started it, they lost it, and this is Fate's way of making them pay for it eternally---eg forcing them to play golf on bermuda grass.

Tom -- real interesting post, as usual, but just one problem.  The south didn't start the Civil War.  They just wanted to live and let live.  The north is the side that started the war.  

[Jim Nugent]

the greatest player ever grew up on bermuda in Atlanta

Mike -- Tiger grew up in Georgia???

[Anthony_Nysse]

Paul,
  I have not seen much success interseeding bentgrass into bermuda for overseeding. Part of the reason is the bent takes longer to establish than the usually Poa Triv and the bent also hangs on longer in the spring when we want it to die out and return to 100% tifeagle. I do know some supers that will use it at a 1/3 rate with the poa, but we do not.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Mike_Sweeney]

Very amusing but clearly misguided -- as per usual. Fiction, rather than facts, is always more convenient.

Matt,

You have much to contribute to this site. If you could present your knowledge in a less confrontational way, my guess is that respect and appreciation would come your way, and people would say nice things about New Jersey. Oh yea, a camera would help for the visual learners like me who will never see some of the courses that you play.

Thanks

[TEPaul]

"BTW....just to keep the record straight;

I re enact the early American period of 1721 thru 1745....when things were simpler as in survival."

Paul:

Does that mean you can re enact a Colonial version of a Serpentine Capability Brown in festuca (fescue) or agrostis (bent)?

[BCrosby]

I've tried very hard to stay off this thread but can resist no longer.

If you think our wimmens are too fast and our bumooda is too slow, then by all means stay in your dank, dirty cities.  

You play your over-rated golf courses and we'll play our under-rated golf courses and we'll all be the happier for it.

Sheeesh.

Bob

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mark Stovall, the outstanding superintendent at Lookout Mountain sent me an e-mail this morning where he is shown bouncing a golf ball off the bermuda fairway of the 1st hole.  You can hear the ball hit.

For Bogey:

http://www.watervilleresearch.com/images/firm.mpg

[John_Conley]

Cool video.  Is the soil sandy there or are you sometimes able to grow Bermuda in dirt?  That doesn't look like any course near Orlando.  Maybe it isn't the blades of grass as much as the ground.

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks, Mike.

And I was mistaken:  That's the 9th fairway near the green.

John,

The soil is very shallow.  The brown spots in the fairway likely reflect the lack of depth in the soil and underlying rock.  Rock City is just around the corner:



Mike

[TEPaul]

"If you think our wimmens are too fast and our bumooda is too slow, then by all means stay in your dank, dirty cities."

I got a deal for you. We, up here in the dank and dirty north are pretty creative. If we can figure out a way of developing a bent for your clime will you send all your "too-fast" women up here for us for at least a year or two?

We can call it a "Bent on fast wimmens lend/lease" program.  

[BCrosby]

Thank goodness I got a rise out of someone.

No, I think we'll keep our wimmens and our bemooda greens. But thanks for the offer.

Bob

[ChasLawler]

Mike Young says it is a better grass in his post.  Are you arguing this?  I can't stand the grasses in Florida, although the new strains of Bermuda have improved putting surfaces.  Still can't run a ball up onto the green though.

I've heard of blaming your clubs, but now the grass? Please!

I've probably played twice as many rounds on bermuda fairways as I have on bent, so maybe I'm biased...but personally I don't really have a preference. And I've never noticed bermuda limiting the ground game options. The only issue I have with bermuda is that it goes dormant in cold weather and can get soggy during a wet winter.

I don't have too much experience with bermuda greens, because I live in Virginia and have never seen them in this state before (still waiting Matt )...but like Mr. Paul, the few times I've on played them further south, I never felt as if I needed to do anything much differently than normal.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Apparently Ron Whitten can't tell the difference either, because Providence definitely has bent greens – not Bermuda.

keep googling.....

When they played a Senior Event down at Barton Creek a few years ago, they still had bent greens but TifEagle putting green, on account of wear.  Naturally the courses greens were suffering in the heat, leading many pros to question why the super couldn't keep the same type of grass in similar conditions to the PG.

So, apparently, they can't tell either.

[Matt_Ward]

Mr. Ackerly:

Here's what you said previously to me ...

"I personally find your comments unsubstantiated, ignorant and marginally offensive. Perhaps if you enlightened us as to what courses you are referring to, we might be able to have a reasonable debate on the matter, but unfortunately you have chosen to hide behind the speculation of a future article for the "Jersey Golfer", of which maybe a handful of the viewers on this forum subscribe to or even read.

I suppose that’s all I can say, but I’m still chuckling over the fact that Matt Ward can’t tell the difference between Bermuda and bent greens."

In addition -- Mike Sweeney made it a point to lump me in some sort of "black hole" in regards to my comments.

I was in the Virginia Beach area for a few days after traveling through the Kentucky & Tennessee area. If you need a name of a Virginia course with bermuda greens try the following:

Ocean View Golf Course / Norfolk, VA. You can contact them at Tel: (757) 480.2094 - if you need additional confirmation. The facility is managed by the Billy Casper organization.

I played the course when in town among several others. They put Bermuda greens into place about six years ago -- Bermuda 427, if memory serves.

If you possibly possess the manners of a gentleman - you will PUBLICLY retract the drivel you mentioned about me.

You lamblasted me for making statements that were "unsubstaniated" -- for being "ignorant" and being "marginally offensive." Since I can tell the difference between bent and bermuda greens -- maybe -- to use your words, I now have the FINAL "chuckle" on your ill-suited comments.

You also said that I hid "behind the speculation" of a future article. There's no hiding on my part -- do yourself a favor and don't hide further with more BS statements that insult my intelligence and demonstrate your lack thereof.


 

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