[Jim Johnson]

I realize that the word "fair" shouldn't come up for discussion in this game, or for that matter on this forum, but I wonder what the thought is concerning shelves on a green.

In particular, when a shelf is a predominant part of the green, thus leaving a minimal amount of putting surface on the lower area, is this "fair" to someone who doesn't have the ability to land his approach on the lower portion, when the cup is cut on that lower portion? In reality, I would have to guess that a large percentage of the golfing public routinely do not have the game to land on that lower portion. When putting from the upper shelf to a pin cut on a small lower portion, unless one hits the cup when putting, the ball will roll right off the green?

Thoughts?

JJ

[Bob_Huntley]

JJ:

The more I play the modern courses it seems as though a lot of the green complexes were copied from miniature or goofy golf designs.

Having movement in a green is one thing but on some six and seven thousand square feet of  turf and have less than three decent pin positions is absurd.


Bob

[Patrick_Mucci]

JJohnson,

The golfer always has the option to play short of the lower tier, thus allowing him to chip or putt to that hole location.

And, if he doesn't have the ability to perform, as you alluded to, then he's probably a bogie golfer and shouldn't expect to hit the green in regulation and make par or birdie.

[Jim Johnson]

Patrick,

If the lower tier is on the back portion of the green, and the golfer uses his/her "option to play short of the lower tier", then he faces an impossible putt.

JJ

[Adam Clayman]

JJ, It's not the greens fault if the putt is impossible. Your entire "impossible" question, is soley dependant on greenspeed.

Large contours on small green sizes, will often yield this battle cry when cut too low. 14th at Pebble Beach being the poster child.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,

If the lower tier is on the back portion of the green, and the golfer uses his/her "option to play short of the lower tier", then he faces an impossible putt.

JJ,

In that case, the golfer would have the option to hit it long, so that he can chip or putt to the hole location.

Please, don't tell me that the tier is on the left or right, guarded by a deep chasm.

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