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Steve Kline

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Pinehurst Area Courses
« on: August 31, 2006, 01:22:19 PM »
Every year my dad and I organize a trip to Pinehurst for a group of golfers from our office. We've played many courses, but I'm wondering if there are some that are worth playing that we haven't visited yet. Here's where we've played:

Talamore
The National
The Carolina
The Legacy
Pine Needles
Mid Pines
Mid South
Little River
Tot Hill Farm
Tobacco Road
The Pit
Southern Pines
Foxfire
Pinewild

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 01:39:45 PM »
I'm sure you know about Pinehurst Resort's 1-8  :P

UNC Finley isn't that far away, a little over an hour, a pretty nice Fazio track in Durham.

There are two courses at Woodlake, Maples and Palmer, about 20-30 mins. away in the town of Vass.  I haven't seen the Palmer, but I'd rank the Maples course ahead of National, Carolina, and perhaps Little River (although I did like LR and the Carolina as well).  It isn't anything too different than the other area courses, but its challenges grow on you.  It's a bit more traditionally-styled than the newer courses in the area.

The course at Duke seemed pretty nice as well, although the two times I've been there the course had been recently aerated.

Hyland Hills was also a surprise, as it always seemed to be packaged in the lower tier of courses in the area, but it was fun, not too taxing (a good first-round of the trip course), and a bit interesting.

Supposedly Anderson Creek is pretty good, on the same quality level as the others, like 45 mins to an hour away.  I haven't been there though.  It's a Davis Love III course.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 01:40:40 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 01:52:03 PM »
For sh*ts and giggles.....a ranking of the courses I've played on my P'hurst trips:

P'hurst #2
Pine Needles
Forest Creek North
Mid Pines
Tobacco Rd.
Forest Creek South
CC of NC Dogwood
UNC Finley
P'hurst #8
Southern Pines
Legacy
Mid South (formerly Plantation)
Old North St.
Woodlake-Maples
Duke U.
The Pit
Governors Club
Talamore
Little River
Hyland Hills
Carolina
National
Tot Hill Farm
Asheboro CC

It is a testament to the good depth of quality golf in the area that the only three I really wouldn't readily go back to are the last three!

« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 01:53:00 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 02:02:15 PM »
Brad

While I agree that there are many fine golf courses in the NC sand hills, I must admit to being flabbergasted that you would rank National as you did, especially your closing comment.
While I know that all golfers don't like the same type/style of courses, I just have a hard time understanding what there is to dislike at National so much as to make that closing comment, especially in light of some of the courses you named above it.  It is not a problem, you don't have to respond.  I was just voicing my opinion, as you did.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 02:03:38 PM »
Have either of you played Seven Lakes?

I'm definitely familiar with Pinehurst 1-8. My dad's a member there but those courses are a little out of the price range for the guys that go with us.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 02:04:58 PM by Steve Kline »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2006, 02:13:24 PM »
Anderson Creek (north of Fayetteville) is a good course, better than the other DLIII design in mid-state, The Preserve @JL (which still isn't too bad).

Seven Lakes, a (very) few miles west of town, isn't bad.

Haven't played Beacon Ridge, near Seven Lakes.

Also nearby are Whispering Woods (OK) and CC of Whispering Pines (East is decent, haven't played West).

Keith Hills (original course) in Buies Creek is good.  Haven't played the new one.

Quail Ridge in Sanford is OK.


Brad,

The UNC guys will be on you about saying that UNC Finley is in Durham (It's in Chapel Hill).

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2006, 02:16:28 PM »
Steve,
Two I find enjoyable are:
Richmond Pines- 9 by Ross, 9 by Gene Hamm. It's located a few miles west of Rockingham racetrack, which is around 25 mins. south of Southern Pines.
Whispering Woods- Ellis Maples.  It's in Whispering Pines, 10 mins or so northe east of SP.

I might not organize a trip around either one, but they're fine if you're trying to add something new.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2006, 02:42:27 PM »
Brad

While I agree that there are many fine golf courses in the NC sand hills, I must admit to being flabbergasted that you would rank National as you did, especially your closing comment.


Wow - rated below the Pit... tough crowd Seņor Jim! Only a few others I would argue with including Hyland "power line" Hills which is by no means bad but...

Would probably have Woodlake a but higher(Liked the last hole even if somewhat ruined by technology now) and Forrest Creek somewhat lower... but that's just one guy sitting here waiting for a hurricane! (Early prep has its downfalls... lots of time to wait... and wonder).

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2006, 02:49:45 PM »
GREG

"Turn left baby, turn left"

Thinking about ya'll...stay safe and take care of KB!

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2006, 02:56:50 PM »
As for UNC, i guess I was thinking in terms of the "Raleigh-Durham" area and an hour away from P'hurst, I stand corrected for my lack of specificity.  :)

I have not seen the Whispering courses, Seven Lakes, or either of the Foxfires, although I have seen pics of the Keith Hills course and it looks worth a trip someday.

As for National, much of my angst comes from the fact that I have always gone down to NC in March, which is obviously still off-season for many of the courses down there.  I have played National each time I've gone down due to it's convenience of location and welcoming nature to college golf team spring breakers.  It has always been dormant yellow in color, and slightly sparse in nature when we played it.  It obviously would be brilliant green in season, so I've tried to discount this from my feelings on the course.

However, there are things going on there with the design that just don't fit my eye.  It was built in the middle of Jack's (or the company's, hi Jim :)) aerial attack stage, which was an admittedly hotter style at the time.  Many of the greens at National are heavily defended and elevated, often in front of the green.  This happens on #1 (slopes, bunkers), #2 (water), #3 (3 tiers), #4 (two tiers, bunkers, elevated), #5 (creek, shallow green), #6 (elevated, tiered green), #8 (pot bunkers), and so on.  I have to say it is different and more challenging than many of the area courses, but to me it doesn't allow you to think your way around the course like most of the other Sandhills courses.  There seems to be quite a few high flight, high spin shots that must be hit to succeed here.  

Also, I thought it interesting that throughout the course there are many bunkers, most deep and well-landscaped.  However, on #8 this deviates to pot-bunkers, and on #15, to several small round "sand traps" no deeper than a foot and generally out of play on the right side before the green.  I like the waste bunkers that start on hole #7, and pop up on #11, #14, #16, as much of the scrub in the sandhills probably looked like that at some point, but the pots and traps seem out of place.

Maybe my thoughts are due to the fact that the course has always beaten me up (my best being 78 as a scratch), and I was used to taking apart the likes of Talamore, Mid-South, and Little River, but I would guess that the mid-high marker would have an even tougher time getting around National.  The other courses above, while some aren't that fantastic, are more fun.

I don't find National offensive, and I probably will end up there again sometime, I personally just have more fun at the others on the list.  Maybe we'll say some of the same things about the minimalist courses in 15 years when the new hot courses fit our eye!!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2006, 03:07:25 PM »
I agrees with Brad's assessment of National. It's one of the least favorite courses in Pinehurst - right up there with The Carolina and Course #4 at PCC. In addition to Brad's assessment our group has received really poor service at National, which means we won't ever go back.

One odd note - our group really likes the Pit but doesn't like Tobacco Road. I have yet to figure this out.

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2006, 03:12:47 PM »
 Hi Brad
You didn't have to defend your position.   I am a big tent kind of guy.    It was just your last comment about never going back that caught my attention.
I actually agree with you on some of your points, and you might be interested to know that Jack and I toured National in May and outlined several things that we might change since the club did ask us for some input in light of member comments.
So i imagine that some of the things that you mentioned would be modified in the near future.   While there are mandatory airborne shots on the course (just like every great course....try playing 15, 16, 17 at Cypress Point on the ground) it does have numerous holes that the ball can run on the green.   Namely 6, 7, 8 , 9, 11, 12, 13, 14 ,15 17.  
I have never like the small bunkers right of 15 and they will probably be altered to fit the native waste look found elsewhere.   I am not sure I understand the "pot bunker" comment on #8, however.
Some of the greens will be softened on the edges.
I personally love the course and find it a delight to play.  It isn't easy but I like the challenge.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2006, 03:39:55 PM »
Jim,

I'd like to play it in top form someday.  After all those rounds in March down there, a few former teammates and I haven't followed through on our pledge to go down there and sweat for a week mid-summer to see how those courses actually play.  While I was thinking during my previous post, I found a few things I remember liking about the course, namely #10 (definately makes a "All-Midland Rd. 18"), #11 with the waste area, and the crazy 15th green.  It will be interesting to see any changes you folks make to the course.

Steve,

I have only played it once, but I thought the Pit was alot of fun.  A few of those greens were not that well-maintained because of their shady settings in between those spoil piles, but it certainly is different from the courses in So. Pines, and all of the guys who I was traveling with at the time liked it quite a bit.  I think that Tobacco Rd. is a bit of another animal, as the scale of the course fits the setting there much better than at the Pit.  I could see TR being viewed as harder than the Pit, although for the low marker I think TR is actually easier.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 03:41:37 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2006, 03:43:25 PM »
"I could see TR being viewed as harder than the Pit, although for the low marker I think TR is actually easier."

I agree with this and it must be the case with our group because I'm the only scratch golfer. I like the TR better than the Pit - better design and generally better conditioned.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2006, 03:52:26 PM »
That and the lower handicap player seems to respond to good conditioning and well-designed framing (though many of the features at TR are deceptive, it is a pretty fair layout in my eyes), whereas the quirky conditions and features at the Pit usually steals a stroke or two because it's easier to recover from a swale or bunker at TR than it is to recover from overhanging trees, pine needles, or spoil piles at the Pit.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2006, 04:05:02 PM »
GREG

"Turn left baby, turn left"

Thinking about ya'll...stay safe and take care of KB!

KB has offered to help run some heavy equipment in the clean up stages... Any references for that type of work!!??!!
He'll certainly have trouble making it out to your current projects on the "wrong side of the arroyo" (chances are the bridge at the edge of the Chileno property won't make it through the storm if we take the direct hit).

Worst of all... I will miss the opening weekend of football season! Hopefully not more!



 

Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2006, 04:25:02 PM »
Talamore
The National
The Carolina
The Legacy
Pine Needles
Mid Pines
Mid South
Little River
Tot Hill Farm
Tobacco Road
The Pit
Southern Pines
Foxfire
Pinewild

You've pretty much covered the highlights of the Pinehurst area.  I would add Longleaf just because the horse track scenery makes it fun to play.  Whispering Pines East is also worth a look.  As somebody who has played Keith Hills about a hundred times(I went to college there) I would say it's not worth the hour drive each way if you are already in Pinehurst.  Stay in the area and play Longleaf, Whispering Pines, and Woodlake if you want to play new courses.
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http://2000golfcourses.blogspot.com

Paul Payne

Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2006, 09:46:18 PM »
Can one of you guys enlighten me on something?

I have played many of the courses down there and we could mince about the rankings but I never really liked Tot Hill at all. I have to say that I LOVED TR but I found Tot Hill to be kind of annoying.

Overall it the whole course felt very forced (I know the property has a lot to do with that) But it really feels like Stanz was saying "look! we put a hole right here! can you believe it??? I am not sure a more sensible routing would have been possible but what is the draw for that course? I just don't get it.


Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pinehurst Area Courses
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2006, 10:42:51 PM »
I agree with you Paul.  I really liked TR, but THF was just over the top for me.  I mean there are a few holes that are quite fun, and a few wild attempts at something different.  But what is with the par five with the tongue of green in the front surrounded by rock gardens?

That course played like Inniscrone in PA, but with 9-12 #10s and #16s.

There was just enough there to keep saying, well that hole was cool, maybe it's not all weird....then the next few holes get ridiculous again...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 10:45:24 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

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