Tommy,
I'm sorry, and there may be smarter guys than me, but I didn't get all that from, "Oh, another Tom Fazio thread........ "
You are right that I didn't know about you moderating the threads for two years. At least not from your posts! (Of course, I presume the role of a moderator is to keep things civil, and I could be wrong about that. Please enlighten.
Once again, my apologies for not being the brightest bulb in the chandelier.......
Regarding Fazio - I think he is what he is. He does many, many things better than the rest of us. His budgets and philosphy do make for some holes that most of us could do a lot cheaper, and on a case by case basis, IMHO (and yours) better, specifically the holes where he clears the trees, shapes and plants back at mega bucks, when working around the existing trees would have been better, cheaper, faster. But, I have always maintained that his work has far more diversity than most here give him credit for. He doesn't do that on every hole or course by any means.
I can find nothing in his writings or work that suggests that he overly considers the clubhouse and think you are stretching that point a bit. I think you also stretch the point to think your posts on this thread can make me a better gca.
And, once again, please enlighten as to how Fazio remodeling Thomas work (unless he is relocating the clubhouse and reouting the course) ties into this specific thread? Again, I must be as dense as lead because I just don't see a connection in remodeling and clubhouse location in routing......For that matter, Morrish redit Ojai, on the other thread you are participating on this AM, and I wonder how your dislike for his work there translates into Fazio ruining Thomas work. Are you speaking of Riviera without mentioning it, or is Fazio redoing some other Thomas work I am not aware of? (That is a serious question, BTW, among some other admittedly sarcastic comments
)
In routing, I consider the clubhouse and land and holes together in routing to get to a solution. Every site has a unique set of factors. I think most of my courses have the best routing the land will yield in using that process, and balancing the needs of the clubhouse (which is a part of the facility) with the quality of golf.
To make a point, the Quarry is a real world example of how a clubhouse sometimes must be located first. The only place it could be safely located on the site was on an outside curve of a major highway, to provide vision to the turn lanes. If it went somewhere else it might have been a better golf course, but twenty cars a year might crash. Perhaps you would consider me a GREAT architect, but I couldn't sleep at night. And the course turned out okay.
The bigger impacts were actually environmental and budget, and the Owner's desire for a walking course. But, you make it sound like locating a clubhouse first almost gurantees a bad course. In real life, I just don't see it happen that often, but am on the lookout for cases where it might be the overriding factor.
Tommy,
I really don't mean to be hard on you, but I really don't see the connections to some of your thoughts this morning. Perhaps you touched a live wire?