[Jim_Kennedy]

Our guys mow our greens w/a Toro triplex mower. The new one doesn't have a dual setting so they are thinking about either forgoing the fringe altogether or setting up another, older triplex at fringe height and mowing them with it.

I've suggested that this might be a good time to pick up a few feet of green surface by slowly lowering the fringe (we do possess a walk behind) to green height.

My question: I'm pretty sure that I will soon be hearing all the reasons why my idea can't be implemented  and there may be good reasons why it shouldn't.  I tend to believe it's possible and I would like a little ammo for a reasoned response, if needed.

[Dan Herrmann]

Jim - hold old is your course?  If it's over 10 years old, I'll bet that you've already lost green surface.  If you have them, as-builts may be helpful here.

What type of grass do you have on your greens and collars?  Reason I ask is that our collars responded extremely well to lower cutting heights.

[Phil_the_Author]

Why do you even need fringe? I believe this is a habit that got accepted somewhere along the way and is one that is both unnecessary and contrary to the way many of the old great courses were designed. Just look at the photographs and you'll see little to none.

Most would probably feel some fringe is needed because of the height difference betwen rough and green surface. I say so what!?! At some point a ball will lay at a spot where the grass height differential is large. Why can't it be at the very edge of the green surface where the rough meets it?

Expand your surface as carefully and as much as you can and get rid of the fringes.

You'll be surprised what pin positions are opened up.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Dan,
The course is about 85 years old and we've lost a considerable amount of sq. footage on every green, probably been going on from the first day a triplex was brought onto the property. They're a mix of bent/poa.

Kelly,
We did a half day with the USGA a couple of years ago and were told that it wouldn't be very feasible to return the greens to their original size (just by mowing) as so much has been lost to 'bad' grasses.
I thought it might take a while to recover the fringe as green. Hopefully the guys won't lose interest, if they decide to do it.

Phil,
If we can pick up an extra 5' or so around the edges it will give us a few new pins and that will be a good thing.

-Thanks for the responses.

[James Bennett]

Jim

you won't believe what an extra 5 feet in radius (10 feet in diameter) will do those greens.  They will appear 'huge'.  And, pins can be placed a further 5 feet towards edges, which will take a lot of pressure off the middle of all of your greens.

One of the good things about your proposal, ie with an old triplex but a slightly higher cut, is that the buckets at the front will remove the clippings.  Give it a year or two, include all of the fringe (and hopefully some of the surrounds) in any annual maintenance activity (coring, topdressing, dusting, de-thatching etc) and keep an eye on what happens at the most stressful time of year for grasses.

Good luck.  I repeat though, you won't believe the difference that an extra 5 feet in playable area of greens will do, and how it will enable the wear on the greens to be better spread across the entire green at high stress/usage times.

James B

[Michael_Stachowicz]

Jim,
I had come across some pictures I took of my round there a few years ago and was thinking it was too bad no one really had gone forward with a green expansion there.  There are some holes like the Alps or the Short that can almost double in size.  I think the key to doing this is to do it slow.  From what I remember there is still alot of bentgrass  around the greens, so it can be successful.  First step, bring it down to a half inch now or in the fall...this should be fairly successful barring excessive thatch or less bent/poa in the surrounds than I remember.  It is the march from half inch to putting green height that is tough.  This may have to be be done over 2 to 3 years.

This is a noble pursuit, but some things are going to have to be considered: 1: the need for a dedicated mower, 2: where is the green irrigation and will that have to be moved, 3: this new area will add to the area that needs to be treated with fertilizer and chemical so the budget will have to change accordingly.

I hope this helps.

[Sean McCue]

Here is a post from my blog that shows how we restored a green to the original size.  The Country Club at Castle Pines is 23 years old and we have begun a program of enlarging greens back to what they used to be.

http://cccpgcm.blogspot.com/2008/02/reclaiming-lost-green-contours.html

[Mark_Fine]

Sean,
Thanks for the post.  Just curious where you obtained your sod?  Did you create a turf nursery from plugs?  Sod is not an easy solution especially on older greens. 
Mark

[Sean McCue]

Mark,

We have only 15% to 20% Poa in the original Penncross greens which is not bad for 23 years old.  We purchased the sod from a local grower that grew the sod on plastic using a very similar sand that was used at the time of construction.  The hardest part of the whole process was making sure the tie in was perfect, which was no easy task considering the time of year we did it.

[Jim_Kennedy]

For some reason our guys resist the idea of creating a nursery from plugs. Actually, they resist the idea of an on-site nursery, period.

Several years ago we lost part of our 8th green, a section in the middle, and 
they cut turf from the edges to make the repair, then they brought in the sod needed to fill in the edge. 

It worked, but it seems like a lot of extra work.   

[Carl Rogers]

Isn't this thread part of the larger environmental, energy comsumption & complexity  and  cost of maintenance issue?

If rough and the fringe were eliminated from the course, would that create a more 'sustainable' course?  Isn't that where the game is headed?

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