[Adam_F_Collins]

I like to see architectural discussions here on the forum, and I'd like to do what I can to foster such discussion. I'd also like see people discuss designs on the most equal footing possible. Often, people are afraid to express opinions because they've never been to a particular course. Some architects are favored to a point where their work is not analyzed objectively, and the same thing happens when architects are out of favor.

So, I'd like to take a shot at starting another contest.

Here are my thoughts:

1 - The hole can be any type, par 3,4 or 5. Any yardage, any school.

2 - Every effort will be taken to conceal the identity of the designer. All entries will be sent to me via email, and I will redraw them and post them so that each will appear in the same rendering style. Hopefully this will encourage entries from people who have ideas, but lack drawing skills.

3 - ALL are welcome, including (and perhaps especially) professional architects. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a truly unbiased discussion of some of the architects' ideas?

4 - Judges will be any and all of the members of this board. Each member will get one ballot, voting on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. No one can vote for their own design. (although they can discuss it all they want, as long as they do not identify themselves as the designer - identification equals disqualification).

5 - The contest will have no set duration for discussion. Each design would be posted in its own thread and discussed. This discussion will be carried on over a bit of time, so that each gets fair attention. Once all entries have been discussed, votes will be cast and counted and the winner announced.

6 - I will donate at least one prize for the winner, and ask that others consider donation of something as well

Any interest? Any further suggestions?

If we agree to do this and agree on the format, I'll write up the 'official' contest rules and post to start it.

[George Pazin]

I love the idea, will gladly submit an entry and will donate a prize as well.

But, just so you know, the number of people on this site that enter design contests can be counted on 1 or 2 hands, and no feet.

[Adam_F_Collins]

I'm hoping we can establish a format which gets more people to try it. We can do this completely anonymously if people desire it. Entries can be sent via anonymous emails and the winner doesn't even have to come forward if they don't want to.

[JR Potts]

As a novice that would like to give it a whirl, would someone be willing to post an exemplar?

[Adam_F_Collins]

...would someone be willing to post an exemplar?

We can do that with the rules. If there's enough interest.

A

[JR Potts]

I guess I could find one myself.  However, I think a starting point may help some of us non-professionals and rookies.

[Glenn Spencer]

I am with Ryan, a novice, I would like to see an example. This sounds like fun and should be interesting to see.

[Adam_F_Collins]

An example will be provided, showing the types of details which will be required for me to reproduce. It will most likely amount to an aerial view, showing major features, hazards and giving a general sense of contour, a detail of the green, showing contours, and a side-on line drawing showing elevations.

(like the Lido prize diagram MacKenzie did.)

Nothing which requires one to be a pro, or identifies one as a pro. The rendering will illustrate the major design concepts, and serve to conceal the identity of the designer.

[Adam_F_Collins]

This is a drawing I did for another contest, and somewhat representative of what I'll produce for people. (minus the colour and writing - PLUS a more detailed magnification of the green).

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Great idea..count me in..this could be great!

[Adam_F_Collins]

More detail?

[Ryan Crago]

good idea.. i imagine there will be some decent response, and i look forward to hearing the analysis/critique.

but adam, how on earth are you going to redraw all of the entries???  you must have too much time on your hands...  

that said, i dont necessarily think that a variety of rendering styles is a bad thing... most providing the critique will look past the "gloss" as it were, and into the substance of the designs.  as well, a variety of renderings will give other people ideas/examples on how to improve their own styles.

not to mention save you tons of time.

just a thought.

[George Pazin]

Just so you guys aren't intimidated by Adam's fantastic drawing, here is what my recent entry to Golf Magazine's contest looked like:



You can see it was a lot more basic. If I am reading Adam correctly, he is saying he would take your image and re-draw it so that no one would recognize the style of the artist.

I would also appreciate it if no one would enter their drawing into the Lido contest, as I would really like to play the Valley Club this fall....

P.S. Ryan's correct about the re-drawing, I don't know if it's necessary.

[Jim Thompson]

Adam,

Great idea!  I have only one suggestion;  find a base topo or a set of base topos for your competitors to choose from.  The land is so much of the process and the greatest part of most holes is choosing how to utilize that land.  I think you find much deeper discussions coming from the thought process behind choosing route and layout with its features.

JT

[Adam_F_Collins]

but adam, how on earth are you going to redraw all of the entries???  you must have too much time on your hands...
just a thought.

Ryan,

I'd do it in order to keep it anonymous and to encourage more involvement from people who are reluctant to put their illustrations up for critique. I'm also trying to "level the playing field" a bit. I know how appearance can influence reading. And I'd like to have everyone vote.

Plus, the renderings I do won't be as detailed or use colour. I could re-render the image George provided in about 15 minutes. Beyond that, I'd like to allow each entry fair discussion time, giving me plenty of time between renderings.

[Adam_F_Collins]

...I have only one suggestion;  find a base topo or a set of base topos for your competitors to choose from.  The land is so much of the process and the greatest part of most holes is choosing how to utilize that land.  I think you find much deeper discussions coming from the thought process behind choosing route and layout with its features.

This is a good suggestion. Do others support it? Or would you rather be free to come up with whatever landforms you like? If people would like to use a topo, is there someone who could provide one for our use?

[Yannick Pilon]

Adam,

I would definately support the idea of a topo map to get people going.  However, I would try to see if the idea is supported by more people.

The reason I am saying this is I know a lot of people have a really tough time reading a map properly.  So this might scare people away....

Tough one to decide, but I would personaly support it.  If the idea is accepted, let me know.  I could probably supply a map.

Maybe a large rectangle of 600m x 300m would do?

Yannick

[Adam_F_Collins]

Thank you Yannick.

Anyone else have opinions on the use of a topographic map? It would give participants a more accurate test of what an architect deals with. It would also allow more accurate critical analysis as well...

[Jim Thompson]

Adam,

I would be happy to provide some topos.  I've got drawers and drawers full of them some are even coupled with original aerials.  I can scan and e-mail them to you, you pic out a few, and tell me which you like, and I can host and post them, if you like.

JT

[George Pazin]

Topo plus: it's definitely more realistic, at least in terms of seeing what an architect might face.

Topo negative: it probably removes a bit of the imaginative element of a fictitious design, and potentially restricts what someone can design.

I like both types of contests, so it doesn't matter to me which you do.

[Scott Witter]

Adam:

Consider me in, I think your idea is a good one and I am in support of anything more along the lines of an architecture discussion and I agree with the topo/aerial photo suggestion.  It could come from many sources...Jim Thompson seems appropriate.  Perhaps a brief review of the Golf Digest or other contest rules and format will assist you in pulling this together.

[JR Potts]

Count me in on the side of the Pro-topo group.  Or better yet, we could have two contests/categories.  One using the same topo and the other without restriction.

[Kirk Gill]

I'm up for the topo map, as I have lots of earth-moving equipment available in my imagination.............

[paul cowley]

Adam...your rendering style is very good and I think it would be enjoyable to see more of it and how you adapt it to 'others' offerings....I would like to see some before and after comparisons at some point if this idea sprouts wings.

The idea of a supplied topo is probably a good one, although under the terms of your original offer I was going to submit a group of 18 entries at a time, as you had not specified how many entries were allowed and we were not using a common topo ......darn .

...but there is something wrong with this thread so far and  I'm hesitant to bring it up........but...there have been no negative posts so far on this thread .
I would like to suggest that the first neg up also needs to submit the first entry.......

[Kyle Harris]

Here's a potential first topo. I scaled it back 75%, so 3/4 of an inch is 100 feet.

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