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Matt_Ward

My Day at Stone Eagle
« on: May 15, 2006, 10:42:14 PM »
I have been visiting the Coachella Valley for nearly 25 years and can say candidly that I have seen a wide range of different courses and design styles there. No doubt long ago the gated community with add-on golf course has changed from ho-hum basic design to more complex and even demanding layouts (e.g. The Stadium at PGA West).

What amazes me about my time at Stone Eagle starts with the following:

*The actual site is indeed very unique -- just north of Big Horn in Palm Desert off Highway 74 -- yet so wondefully tucked away and light years beyond the 101-201 level design stuff that predominates golf in the region -- with just a few exceptions of note. Given what I was told that housing had been in the plans prior to the golf for quite some time for this site I am so thrilled a first rate golf course will now be part of the permanent landscape.

*As a corollary to that -- the housing issues are very critical to giving the golf course the feel that it has. At Stone Eagle no more than 40 residences will be built and each of them will occupy land located at the entrance to the property -- far removed from the actual layout itself which is set on much higher terrain and completely out of eye-sight until you walk beyond the practice range and practice putting / chipping green. When one often speaks about housing -- the mantra in the Coachella Valley -- generally you get homes parked right on top of any hole / green / you name it -- that's not the case at Stone Eagle and it adds considerably to the feel of playing golf there.

*I am a big proponet that land -- the actual site a course occupies -- is the first among equals and is roughly 60% of any assessment I have for any course I play -- the other two elements are the routing and overall shot values one faces. There are exceptions, but generally the land is truly important because as Will Rogers was fond to say when asked why land is so important his classic retort is priceless, "Because they don't make anymore of it."

Time doesn't permit me to go into full detail on all the holes but I will say this -- credit Tom Doak in providing for the kind of member's course that golf clearly needs more of. Stone Eagle provides healthy width for the average player of the tee and at the same time puts a high premium on placement of shots -- especially on the approaches.

If there's one word to describe Stone Eagle it's quite simple for me to pen -- fun.

One little tidbit on the 18th at Stone Eagle. It plays just under 500 yards and although the tee shot is downhill -- you still need to bust it because the grow-in bermuda fairways as the layout moves into the summer time frame are not permitting the kind of run-out you see during the winter months.

I pushed my first tee shot to the far right and concur that coming in from the 17th isn't a bad option but it's not necessary or preferred. My second tee shot was smashed down the left side and I was quite fortunate to bypass the rock outcropping that cuts in from that side. I made it to the 130 yard plate and hit PW just short as the pin was cut towards the very front.

Let me just say this -- the 18th at Stone Eagle surrenders NOTHING. No matter the length of the tee shot -- you still need to fully comprehend the putting surface. I'd like to see the pin in the far left corner on a return visit because anything overcooked in that direction is deader than Elvis big time.

Credit again to Tom Doak for a stellar finishing hole -- it's the best long par-4 hole of his that I have played to date.

More to follow on the other holes as my trek through the southwest USA continues.

P.S. Here is the scorecard from the tips ...

1st / 402 / par-4
2nd / 398 / par-4
3rd / 164 / par-3
4th / 464 / par-4
5th / 418 / par-4
6th / 364 / par-4
7th / 218 / par-3
8th / 501 / par-5
9th / 418 / par-4
Total 3,347 / par-35

10th / 386 / par-4
11th / 404 / par-4
12th / 153 / par-3
13th / 548 / par-5
14th / 415 / par-4
15th / 185 / par-3
16th / 352 / par-4
17th / 512 / par-5
18th / 499 / par-4
In 3,454 / par-36
Total 6,801 yds / par-71
*Course rating 72.5 / Slope 134 * I believe these were the numbers.




DTaylor18

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2006, 11:14:49 PM »
I would echo much of what Matt has said above (except for that stuff about the tips, I don't go there!)  Stone Eagle was a big surpise to me.  As an east coaster and someone who has not played a lot of golf out west, it was a truly unique experience for me.  It does appear that housing will not be an issue there and the club has set everything up right, as far as I could tell.  The views are great, the strategy is there, and most importnatly the course is fun, even for this mid-handicapper and my playing partner, fellow GCA'er Peter Herreid (perhaps we can get him to post some of his famous pictures!).

Part of what made it so enjoyable was that it was a blast to hit balls off the tee and watch them bound down the fairway, not sure where exactly it would end up. The wild greens were so much fun, even if they did force a few three putts.  There were some great short fours, some strategic par 5's, and some beautiful par 3's.  The width there was surprising, certainly like nothing I had ever seen on a desert course before.  What was great was that Peter and I hit a lot of fairways, but the better player would be better served hitting certain parts of each fairway, giving strategic advantages into the greens. Some short par 4's, if you hit to the wrong sides, woould leave a short iron in, but the  approach was blind!  

It was a lot of fun to play, which I don't often think of when I think of a desert course.   I do wonder what the low handicappers think about the difficulty of the course.  My guess is that the wild greens play a large role in its defense.  I look forward to the reviews after the Kings Putter.
 
« Last Edit: May 15, 2006, 11:17:15 PM by Dan Taylor »

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2006, 11:16:19 PM »
I was fortunate to play Stone Eagle last week and thoroughly enjoyed it.  The contrast between the reddish mountain rockscapes and the fairways and greens is a little bit surreal.  The "wow" factor is major league. The golf course itself is indeed a lot of fun, I think much more so for better players.  Although there is good width of the fairways to allow for some waywardness of the drive, there are a lot of elevated greens, making for some  difficult approaches, especially if you have to come in with woods or long irons.  In addition, 3 of the first 5 greens are so severe that 4 putting won't be unusual at all.  
     It's definitely too short for championships-  the word was that there wasn't enough land there- although when you look around you find that hard to believe. And I was a little disappointed that there was only 1 par 5 on the front side. The par 3's are just terrific and as good a set as you will find. There is not a weak hole on the course, and indeed the finisher is excellent, although it can be extremely penal .
     Overall, it has to be one of the best courses in the desert.  I think it will be too difficult for higher handicaps to play every day.  I've heard that the very wealthy members will probably use it more as a second or third course, especially to impress clients.  

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2006, 01:25:00 AM »
72.1/135 is the rating.

If I was allowed one change to the course, I'd move the 16th tee back 60-70 yards, closer to the 15th green.  At 352 yards, I believe Tom and his guys are trying to tempt the long hitter to drive the green.  I'm a medium length hitter, I'm never tempted, and I've made several birdies already by laying back and wedging it close.  I think they ought to make me hit driver instead of 5-wood to get that easy wedge shot in.

Matt, were you tempted to drive the 16th green?  They moved the tee up for guys like you.  130 to the green on 18?  Sheesh.  I usually settle for a puny 290 yard 3-wood and try to hit the green with a fairway wood.  
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 01:25:45 AM by John Kirk »

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2006, 01:45:27 AM »
John, et al:

I understand the 17th hole will add a rear back tee and add 30 yards from where it is now. In terms of lengthening holes I can easily envision a number of potential back tee areas if the club were so inclined. I add for emphasis -- that it is not needed given the genesis of the club and those who will play it.

In regards to the 16th hole -- we played the extreme back tees and can within 40 yards of the green but the rub of it was quite simple -- the pin was cut hard right and my tee shot landed in the same general area but I was then forced to chip over a rise on that side in order to get close. The best I could do was get it to roughly 10 feet.

During my visit I was told that Fred Couples played the course in an exhibition about a week ago and with several of the tees pushed up was able to reach a few of the shorter par-4's -- the uphill 6th he reached the front edge of the green, to list but one example.

The strength of the course is the approaches you are faced with constantly. I played the course with green speeds that were moderate. If they were truly buffed then the slightest off-line shots to the targets can easily roll a good bit aways from the pin location.

Frankly, I think the course really comes alive when you stand on the long par-4 4th hole. The first three holes are merely warm-up acts but when you get to the 4th you then need to switch into high gear for the rest of the day.

Incidentally, I find the tee shot at #4 to be one of the best examples at what makes Stone eagle so unique. You have to work the ball from right-to-left but should you overcook there's plenty of H20 ready to grab your ball. In addition, the putting surface is one of the best on the course. Hit it a tad too hard and you are truly lucky to three-putt.

John -- one last thing -- I think the 18th hole simply eliminates those players who can't strike their tee shots with precision and length. Doak doesn't allow anyone to finish the round at Stone Eagle without really demonstrating a winning marriage on both fronts and the approach to the 18th is arguably among the 3-4 best you face all day.

I also have to opine that the uphill 14th hole at 415 yards may be the most underrated hole on the course. The tee shot is quite demanding and the approach is no piece of cake.


Michael Robin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2006, 02:01:37 AM »
John -

I had heard some rumblings of "move the tee back on 16." I loved the
current distance dynamics. The 16th is arguably the most important hole in a match. You can grab a late lead. You can close out the match. You can get back into it with a birdie. The 16th at Stone Eagle gives both players so many options based on how the match stands from the tee,
fairway and around the putting surface. You can indeed take an aggressive line and if you pull it off, you might reap great rewards and apply serious pressure thru execution to your opponent. If you fail, you're likely done.

The short distance promotes bold play which
leads to drama. If the hole were to be lengthened, it would promote bogey instead of birdie and you would have very similar shot values on
16 and 18(a beast of a drive leaving you an uphill long iron from a downhill lie with trouble left front, bailout right and a wicked green).
Currently, you feel you either have a chance to make up ground with a birdie or you need to protect your lead with a birdie, so it forces you to
try to boldly execute, something that is a wonderful recurring theme at
Stone Eagle.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 02:12:19 AM by Michael Robin »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2006, 08:33:31 AM »
Matt:

Glad you liked the course.  And everyone else, too.

There are three reasons why we didn't put the tee on 16 further back.  In order of importance:

1.  Safety.  If we put it further back and someone tried to rip a tee shot and pulled it left, players in the landing area on 17 would be endangered.  16-17-18 are really close together and I opted for something that would keep 16 and 17 separate.

2.  Strategy.  The current length gives the good player something to think about while keeping the member in the game.  If the hole is 60 yards longer, then it's just a straightforward driver-wedge hole for the good player, but the member can't play back there with him.  And the landing area for the tee shot as a longer hole is difficult -- partly hidden by the left fairway bunkers, falling away and to the right -- so I didn't think many players would enjoy trying to hit a driver into it.

3.  Esthetics.  Putting a tee back on top of that rocky knob would be a flat-top visible from many other spots on the course.  We tried to avoid that.

I do feel that driver on 16 as it is now is a sucker play.  I know there are some guys who can get there, but you don't want to be in the wrong spot around that green.  I've made birdie a couple of times after pulling an iron shot down into the hollow on the left past the bunkers -- it's 120 yards and blind from there, but it's a perfect angle past that hump on the right side of the green to which Matt referred.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2006, 10:52:01 AM »
Thanks for the responses.  There will probably be another full discussion about Stone Eagle after the King's Putter tournament, so I'll keep this very brief.  It's a fun driving course.  Generally, the greens are kept at medium speed.  I can't believe Fred Couples nearly drove the 6th green.  Even from the white tees, that is an enormous drive.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2006, 11:09:13 AM »
John, you've probably played there more than anyone else on the site, is there a distance benefit you often see at desert courses? (That was really poor English for "Does the ball go further?")

Why doesn't it surprise me that Matt's favorite Tom D par 4 is 499 yards? :) I will say, I am encouraged by his summarizing the course with the word fun.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 11:20:16 AM »
John

How does Bill Gates play the 6th?

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 11:34:32 AM »
George:

Please.

Enough of this predictable drivel from short knockers that Ward only really liked the 18th hole.

That's far from the case.

I did not go into serious length about the different holes but suffice to say there are plenty of holes at Stone Eagle that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Gents:

A few concerns I have about Stone Eagle less people think it should be coronated for sainthood. The two dropshot par-3's are not necessary from the strict standpoint of repetition. The 7th is a good choice but the 12th was merely Ok from ym standpoint. The lone item of note about the 12th was the fall-off towards the rear of the green. A decent hole but not great for a hole of its length.

I also concur about the 16th hole and in keeping its present length as is. Tom D explained the universality of what the hole provides and moving the tee backwards only eliminates the totality of what is there now.

On the par-5 side I think the 13th is the best of the bunch. Plenty of thinking to do off the tee and the second shot had better not go too far left because the green becomes a nightmare when coming in from that direction. The 8th is a good gamble hole -- only wish the fairway bunker ont he right was a bit more further down the hole on the right -- but the 17th simply seemed as if it was just checking in as an obligatory par-5 and frankly is a good bit less than the holes that flank it on the card.

The thing that seals Stone Eagle on the positive front is how a demanding site was tamed to provide such a fun course. There's plenty of golf in the Coachella Valley that is simply holes to play -- and usually quite pedestrian and pro forma in its qualities. Stone Eagle is far from that pattern and for that reason alone will draw even more attention for those coming to that special place in the California desert.

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 11:46:32 AM »
Enough of this predictable drivel from short knockers that Ward only really liked the 18th hole.

Where did anyone say that?
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2006, 11:49:44 AM »
Matt, I was just teasing you a bit - lighten up, pardner. :) I do note that you said the 18th was Tom D's best long par 4, and you placed the emphasis on fun, which is great.

Sounds like the driving aspect at SE is a good bit more forgiving than the typical desert course, so maybe I'd actually enjoy it. You are probably the one person that dislikes drop shot par 3s as much as me, so I can understand not liking both. Anything unusual about the 7th that you liked it?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2006, 11:54:38 AM »
One thing to keep in mind is that the course is so sloped that yardage does not mean much unless you know whether it is up or down hill.  I recall hitting  driver/faiway wood to some uphill 400 yard holes and driver/wedge to some downhill holes that were much longer.

I really liked the 12th but we played it with the pin back which makes for a very interesting tee shot because it looks like there is nothing behind that green.

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2006, 11:59:54 AM »
George:

I'm only busting your balls partner !

The thing about Stone Eagle is that it doesn't preclude different types of players from enjoying the course and playing their own particular stles of golf. Fun is definitely the word when playing there.

I simply opined that among all the Doak designs I have played the long 18th at Stone Eagle is arguably, for me at least, the best long par-4 of his works that I have played to date. The hole is a clear statement at the end of the round there that you must string together two first class shots -- off the tee and approach and then make sure you handle the contours the final hole provides.

In terms of the 7th hole -- I was told the win conditions can greatly influence club selection -- so at 218 yards it could be a short iron or even a metal club approach. I like that type of versatility. The 12th is simply a short hole with too little going on for my tastes. Take for example what C&C did with the short par-3 on the front at Bandon Trails and I was hoping for something of that type at Stone Eagle. The 12th is good but when drop-shots are used I much prefer some real differences beyond the distance equation.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2006, 12:07:58 PM »
George,

I found the ball only went slightly further, probably becasue iof the warm air.  The turf was pretty firm too.  High temps were in the 70s when I was there.

Matt,

I like 12 better than 7.  I just felt 7 was too far downhill, making for an uncomfortable walk up to the tee, and steeply back down to the green.  7 probably plays better as 250 yard hole from the 6th fairway.

13 is my favorite par 5.  The bunker on 8 is positioned perfectly for my power (105 mph).  17 is less exciting than the other par 5s, but it gets tricky if you go for the green in two, and come up a little short.

Steve,

When I played with Bill, he hit driver into the bunker, wedged out, then hit his approach onto the green and two putted.    He can get there with driver, 7 iron on a good day.  Nice guy.

I'm renominating Stone Eagle for sainthood for purely selfish reasons.

John

P.S.  Everything here is true, except the part about Bill Gates.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 12:12:57 PM by John Kirk »

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2006, 10:49:01 PM »
John:

If you had to name any weak holes -- whatever criteria you apply -- what hole(s) would you name at Stone Eagle ?

Converesely, what holes are the most underrated given the number of rounds you have played there ?

Thanks ...

P.S. I would also like to know your personal top five courses in all of the Coachella Valley if you would like to list them.

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2006, 01:54:34 PM »
Just bringing backup to see if John Kirk can respond to my previous questions.

Thanks ...

DMoriarty

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2006, 06:38:23 PM »
Matt,

Thanks for the review.  

I assume you agree that this was an incredibly difficult site on which to build a golf course.  It is as much or more a mountain course as most of the so-called mountain courses I have played.  I am wondering if you could compare Stone Eagle to another 'mountain course' with which we are both somewhat familiar, namely Black Rock.  Namely, how do you think these courses compared regarding the following . . .

. . . "shot values" around the greens?
. . . "shot values" of the recover shots?
. . . "shot values" for the shorter hitter who may be forced to play longer holes in less than regulation?
. . . variety of greens (ex. . . sites, shapes, contours surrounds.)
. . . integration of pre-existing natural features into the design?
. . . verisimilitude of the shaping?  
. . . quality and variety of approaches, including variety and interest of lies?  
. . . the use of ground slope and visibility (or lack thereof) as a strategic feature?
. . . variety and interest of the tee shots?  
. . . playability for a wide spectrum of levels of golfers?  
. . . walkability?
. . . compromise, if any, in choice of land used for golf course compared to land used for housing?  (You addressed this somewhat above, but I'd like to a comparision with the way these decisions went at Black Rock.
. . . Uniqueness and execution of design concept?
. . . Fun factor.  

Cary, if you are out there I'd be curious as to your thoughts on this as well, as I know you have played both and thought extremely highly of Black Rock.  

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2006, 09:19:39 PM »
Sorry, Matt.  I'm down in Los Angeles, with no easy access to the website.  Give me until Saturday morning and I'll respond.  Briefly, the one hole I like least is #7, as previously stated.  But I'll look more carefully at your question, and give a more thorough response if appropriate.

JK

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2006, 02:34:47 PM »
John K:

Look forward to your response when time allows.

David:

You pose an interesting series of questions / re: Stone
Eagle v Black Rock. Given your outright thumbs down assessment for Engh's work in Idaho I can only surmise where you are headed with this.

Nonetheless, I will answer shortly because given your tenacity to make your points I want to have all my details lined up in a nice row of defensible points.

Adios for now ...

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2006, 07:47:25 PM »
1.  If you had to name any weak holes -- whatever criteria you apply -- what hole(s) would you name at Stone Eagle ?

2.  Converesely, what holes are the most underrated given the number of rounds you have played there ?

3.  I would also like to know your personal top five courses in all of the Coachella Valley if you would like to list them.

Matt,

Naturally these are only my opinions.

1. As opposed to having great holes which stand out, I feel the course is notable for its consistency.  Every hole is interesting.  My evaluation criteria is hard to define:

Do the shots presented give me a clear picture of what I want to hit?
Does the course give a complete examination of my skills?
Is it fun to play?
Is it a beautiful walk in the park?

For me, course beauty is very important.  I strongly prefer courses in a relatively undisturbed natural environment.  Some older parkland courses with a judicious selection of specimen trees are also excellent.  I understand that Golf Digest raters are specifically instructed to ignore course beauty, and focus on shot values and other well defined criteria.  Not me.

--  I don't like the long walk up to the seventh tee, and back down to the green 100-150 feet below.  However, it's a fun shot to hit, the view up there is spectacular, and the green complex is interesting.  I suppose there could be more grass right of the green, but most balls can be found and played out of the decomposing rock, or cat litter, as I like to call it.  Playing the hole from the front of the sixth green is an option.  From there it's about 250 yards long.

--  Holes nine and eleven look the same and play very similar, too.  They are sharply downhill 400 yarders that turn slightly to the left.  They both feature greens which slope away from the approach shot.  They are just a bit too similar for a course with otherwise astounding variety.  I like nine better than eleven, but Tom Naccarato is smitten with the little ridge 30-40 yards short of the eleventh green.  It's easier to hit a ball out of play on eleven, and both holes feature downhill approaches which are delightful to gauge distance on.

--  To improve walkability, I'd like to see walkways across the canyon on thirteen, and back the other way on fourteen.  That would eliminate an extra 250-300 yards of walking around the hazard.

I'm slightly uncomfortable discussing anything negative.  But I've already shared my sentiments about this with Tom and the Stone Eagle management, so it's no big deal.  They all know I'm a very satisfied customer.  

2.  The most underrated hole is three, which is a very simple 130-160 yard par three, with two bunkers left and a rocky hazard front and right.  The green looks pretty flat from the tee, but it seems every time I successfully play a shot away from a tucked hole location, I have a hell of a time two putting for par.  It looks simple, but plays tricky.  It's a sleeper.

3.  I don't get around much, Matt.  I'm the kind of guy who likes playing his home course over and over.  I've played two other courses in the Coachella Valley, The Quarry at La Quinta once, and a little 5500 yard course called Santa Rita Golf Club once.  I've had lunch at The Palms, which looks great to me.  I'm sort of embarrassed how difficult I am to please these days.  Although The Quarry has many fine attributes, I felt there was simply no comparison between the two.  Stone Eagle, The Palms, The Quarry, Santa Rita.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2006, 07:48:54 PM by John Kirk »

Matt_Ward

Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2006, 02:34:33 PM »
John:

Thanks for your candid comments, however, much of your focus was on non-related hole specifics such as the elimination of difficult walks and so forth.

I do agree with you / re: the common nature of what you find with the 9th and 11th holes. I also pointed out previously the repeat nature of two drop-shot par-3 holes and unlike you I believe the 12th is really a disappointment that could have turned out better. The 7th is a tough hole and when the wind blows from such an elevated tee box -- the sheer dimensions of club selection and execution also rise dramatically. I like your idea of playing the hole from the front of the 6th green but I can only imagine the fallout for those who follow such a path.

John, you mentioned the impact of course beauty and I simply use the term -- land site for course and what it provides off-property as well. On this front Stone Eagle is stunning because it provides such a rare dimension in quality architecture working in concert with what Mother Nature provided. No doubt as a corollary to the site itself -- is the desire by ownership to keep the houses in an area far removed from the actual experience in playing the course.

I have little doubt that Stone Eagle is clearly a major statement beyond the pro forma layouts that dominate the Coachella Valley. Much of what is at the course is tied to maxing out the fun of the members and their guests and Tom Doak has done a fine job in that regard.

By the way I don't find the 3rd as the most underrated hole on the course. No doubt when the pin is cut hard left in the back corner the hole is indeed a challenge but other than that one particular area I find it to be merely a good, but far from great, hole. If I had to add a hole that is very underrated it would be the 13th because people don't realize all the detals associated with this par-5. I often want to examine how an architect handles such holes and at #13 you get a hole that is far from easy because of all the demands / challenges that start from the tee and build-up through the approach. The fall away area of the green on the left is also well done and keeps players from being too frisky when playing away from the right bunker complex near the putting surface.  

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2006, 07:37:47 PM »
Matt:  FYI, the twelfth hole at Stone Eagle was voted the favorite hole of the members in an informal poll after the first month of play.  I wouldn't agree, but it doesn't suck, either.  I just don't think you really can build the type of short par-3 with a tiny target which you seem to want there, in a desert setting ... I don't want to get to the point that a mediocre shot is bouncing off the rocks and the members are re-teeing all day.  [There's a reason we saved that for the 19th hole.]

P.S.  The idea of playing the 7th hole from #6 fairway occurred to us during construction, and we told a few members about it.  It's only for the end of the day when there's nobody playing behind you.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Day at Stone Eagle
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2006, 08:28:25 PM »
Matt,

Two of my three "bullet points" for course criticism are about walking.  I only have one criticsm of the actual course because I believe the course is extremely consistent and solid.  They're all good holes.  #3 is sort of plain looking, but I keep three putting when I play conservatively, which drives me crazy.  For me, the tough pin is far right.  I can draw a ball to the back left corner, but that pin out over the hazard is scary.

#13 is one of my favorites, so it's hard for me to call it underrated.

I like #12.  The big green is full of little undulations, and it's kind of hard to read.  It's not too tough, but you can make it a little scary by tucking the pin far left or right.

If pressed to pick my favorites, they would be 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 13, and 14.

Tom, as always thanks for participating.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2006, 08:34:38 PM by John Kirk »

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