[Patrick_Mucci]

"Could you list the six hazard features that are more effective than bunkers at presenting a tactical challenge and extracting a "cost" for encoutering them, that populate the LZ for long hitters?"

Sure;

1. water
2. trees
3. gorse, whins, bushes
4. rough
5. slope
6. contour, hollows, mounds, berms, etc.
And there are others---

You equate the challenge of numbers 2 through 6 with bunkers ?  ?  ?   You must be kidding.

Refresh my memory, how are you going to put trees in the fairway, or immediatly adjacent to the fairway, and preserve the quality of the turf ?  ?   ?

Ditto for whins, gorse and bushes, which also contribute to slow play.

Could you cite some courses in the greater Philadelphia and New York area that have an abundance of whins, gorse and bushes in or adjacent to the fairway ?

Try not to fantasize about the issue, present practical arguments.[/color]

"Then, could you give me six examples of club's that employ those six hazard features that are more effective than bunkers, that extract the same penalty for encountering them, that provide a tactical signal to the golfers eye?"

MORE effective than bunkers, that extract the SAME penalty or provide tactical signals to the golfer's eye, are your words and not mine or JeffB's or Forrest's.

Of course they're my words, I challenged you to present examples of features and clubs that employ them where these features are more effective, and Ill add, or equally as effective as bunkers, that extract the same penalty for encountering them, that ALSO provide a tactical signal to the golfers eye.

Why couldn't you name any clubs that employ [/color]

What we ARE saying is those hazard features mentioned above ARE effective hazard features for long hitters or any other golfer and they are alternative hazards and interchangeable with the sand bunker hazard feature.

I know what you're saying and I dispute your contentions.[/color]

As for an examples of six clubs that utilize them one could probably find at least twice that many in East Lothian alone.

Let's confine the answers to the continental U.S.[/color]

It would probably be appropriate to just concede that point, Pat----the premise of this thread of yours in totally unsupportable. Apparently you think the entire world of golf and architecture needs elongated bunkers only to reign in long hitters.

I never said "only", that's your way of injecting and presenting an extreme, as if on my behalf, to fortify your weak and flawed position.

CBM did a great job with them at NGLA.
If they were good enough for him, they should work well for others.

In fact, if you'll watch the "Players" Championship today, you'll see that Pete Dye employed them at TPC.

If they're good enough for CBM and Pete Dye they should be good enough for you and others.[/color]

[TEPaul]

"I know what you're saying and I dispute your contentions."

People like me and JeffB and Forrest are well aware you know what we're all saying and how true it is but that you dispute everyone's contentions anyway. When most of these threads last long enough you begin to dispute your own contentions you're so such a Devil's Advocate and so argumentative.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat

Sometimes you do write a load of rubbish.

Sean, I can see how it would seem that way to someone lacking reading comprehension skills.

The question remains valid, assuming you understand it.

Please, take your time and read slowly and carefully, just like TEPaul is learning to do.

[Scott Cannon]

Pat

Sometimes you do write a load of rubbish.

Sean, I can see how it would seem that way to someone lacking reading comprehension skills.

The question remains valid, assuming you understand it.

Please, take your time and read slowly and carefully, just like TEPaul is learning to do.

I love reading your posts, your the BEST!! A serious question though, do you find it hard to play a round of golf? The reason I ask the question is I taught for Jim Mclean in NY for a while, and he admits that the love for the incredible subtleties in the golf swing and the equipment fascinated him so much, (and even more in the field,the golf course) that he struggled in competitive events. Is it the same for you and design?

PS, Love the CAPS to make a point.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I love reading your posts, you're the BEST!!

A serious question though, do you find it hard to play a round of golf?

No, I find it quite easy.

I've been fortunate in that I'm able to compartmentalize, in golf, business, social, family, etc., etc..  And, I tend to be  observant, beyond my personal focus.  That allows me to multi-task on the golf course.

Remember, every round may have a different purpose.

I might play a round with TEPaul and George Bahto, soaking in the architectural features, discussing them, and experimenting
with different shots.

I might play a round with Ran and have the most enjoyably competitive round where far more than money is at stake.

I might play a round for a few quid.

I might play a round in serious, formal competition.

I might play a round with my young son, my wife, or couples.

I might play a round with clients or perspective clients.

I might play a round just to experiment or work on my game.

I might play a round just to be by myself.

The ability to compartmentalize has served me well, as have my powers of observation.

Do you think it's easy pointing everything out to that idiot-savant, TEPaul.

When he first met me he thought a "pot" bunker was where you hid your stash.

He thought Merion on Ardmore, was Sir Lancelot's girlfriend.

But, I made a promise to his mother to look after him and guide him, I just never dreamed it would be this hard to keep.

The reason I ask the question is I taught for Jim Mclean in NY for a while, and he admits that the love for the incredible subtleties in the golf swing and the equipment fascinated him so much, (and even more in the field,the golf course) that he struggled in competitive events.

Is it the same for you and design?

No, I think the ability to compartmentalize prevented that from happening.

I also view the ability to focus in the context of elasticity.

After I hit my tee shot I have a few minutes to drink in my surroundings, day dream or shoot the breeze.  
As I approach my ball I bring the shot at hand back into focus, plan, execute, and take another journey until I need to hit my next shot.

So there's this elastic approach to playing golf where I'm in focus on the planning and execution of the shot at hand, and where I'm in a dimension outside of  planning and executing golf shots, and it's usually within that time frame when I focus on other issues.

PS, Love the CAPS to make a point.

It's difficult to communicate on the internet, so any device or method that enhances or improves that ability is helpful.

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