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Matt_Ward

Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« on: March 23, 2006, 05:51:12 PM »
Just wanted to find out if anyone in GCA land has played Silverock in the Cochella Valley. The Palmer layout is angling to become a part of the Hope-rota of courses.

Thanks ...

P.S. If anyone has more to offer on the suggested improvements beyond the ones listed in GolfWeek Super News I would be most appreciative. Given the length of 7,700 yards it likely is the longest course in the vicinity -- even ahead of the Stadium at PGA West.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2006, 06:29:15 PM »
I know nothing about the "suggested improvements" - Do you have a breakdown on them?

I found the course to be very scenic, very long, and appropriately challenging for the Hope rota.

I did not, however, find it to be of much architectural merit.  It benefits from an incredible setting and a lack of houses around the layout, but on the whole, I'd play it again, but I wouldn't pay for it.

Interesting things to note from my perspective:

The documented drainage problems were still pretty bad (I played a few months ago) and the second fairway was almost entirely ground-under-repair.  

I really liked the 9th and 10th - I can't decide if I felt that the fact that I, playing from the 7200 tees, should or should not have been able to carry the waste bunker straight at the green.  I had aimed down the right fairway and pulled my tee shot (but I nutted it) and it flew straight at the green over the absolute longest part of the carry (about 275) and hit the downslope, barreling to about 40 yards short of the green (the hole is 453 yards long).

The 10th was also excellent as a short, typically artificial desert "bite off what you want" par 4, but the green was extremely interesting with its slope toward the water and a knob on the right hand side that could either help or hurt a drawing approach shot or spinning wedge.

The 5th hole is a unique dogleg left at the very base of the mountains, and curving around large mature trees.  It looked good from the tee, but I actually snap hooked my shot onto the next fairway and played through the inside of the dogleg with a SW to the green.  I'd like to have another shot at this hole because it looked interesting.

14 is 140 yards from the absolute Palmer tips - everything else, on the card, is under 100 yards.  Where have you ever seen something like this?

14 - Par 3 - 140/95/76/66/61/57

Though, when I played, the back three sets were all at the 135 marker.

The green is flat-out goofy and I heard some pros who played it complained bigtime.

The 15th is a really nice par 5.  The problem is that it's a par 4.  At 525/480/453/425/399/385 yards into the prevailing wind from whichever set of tees you choose, it's a borderline impossible green to hit in regulation due to the sheer length, not to mention the fact that the last 100 yards leading up to the green are pinched to no more than 15-20 yards across by a canal left and a waste bunker right.  I hit an average drive that the wind knocked down, and the best 3 wood I could possibly hit, and barely made it to pin high...much too hard of a hole to be arranged with the lengths the tees offer.

17 is your everyday desert 17th hole - you know the one...210 over water with a waterfall and babbling brook.  Can it really be a signature hole if every course has the same signature?

Overall, the course was fine.  And just that...fine.  When I think about the other things that could have been done with the site, it makes me really wonder what could have been.......


Great practice area, though.


 

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2006, 07:08:11 PM »

Matt_Ward

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2006, 10:54:29 PM »
Ryan:

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I hope to play the course in the next few weeks when I visit the area.

Just one last question -- of all the courses you have played in the greater Palm Springs area how would you rate Silverock among them?

P.S. The Palmer design team often does unimpressive work. I gather from your comments that the site could have yielded much more from the design standpoint. What would you have liked to see?

Thomas_Brown

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2006, 11:49:48 PM »
Matt - I played the tips about a year ago and found the course to play short.  If Torrey South from tips is now 7600 yards, Silverrock plays 500 yards shorter than its 7700.

Concur w/ Ryan on the GCA merits.
It's a Palmer design.
Doak 2 or 3 by my eyes.

Between Silverrock and the Classic Club, the Hope is losing ground fast.  I would guess 15-20 courses would rank ahead of it.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2006, 01:18:32 AM »
Ryan:

Thanks for the detailed feedback. I hope to play the course in the next few weeks when I visit the area.

Just one last question -- of all the courses you have played in the greater Palm Springs area how would you rate Silverock among them?

P.S. The Palmer design team often does unimpressive work. I gather from your comments that the site could have yielded much more from the design standpoint. What would you have liked to see?

Shamefully, I have only played a small handful (and by no means a representative sampling) of courses in the Coachella valley.  In fact, I've only played SilverRock, Desert Dunes, and some Junky Ted Robinson 27 hole layout affiliated with a Marriott I think...and of those I would put Desert Dunes ahead of SilverRock.

I do believe the site could have yielded MUCH more - there is some interesting land to work with and it has a great deal of movement.  I would have loved to see more holes like the 9th where work was done to make the hole play interestingly from tee to green, whereas other holes like the 1st and 6th where they seem to just give you a mindless tee shot and then try to trick up around the green.  

Seeing land like that which was used on the 16th or the 12th/13th (whichever was the dogleg right that goes downhill to a diagonally situated redan-like green) makes you think there was just so much more golf course there.  

Oh, and every par 5 had water playing a PROMINENT role.  That gets old.

People talk left and right about the omnipresent "missed opportunity" but I think this was truly a golden one.

Interesting land, BEAUTIFUL setting, and a ho-hum golf course with an 18th hole featuring a Palmer beach-bunker and at least 7-8 holes that are long just for the sake of being long.



A_Clay_Man

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2006, 10:22:21 AM »
The city of La Quinta should be ashamed(and flogged) at the way they turned this altruistic ideal into this monstrosity of a waste of desert.

Matt_Ward

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2006, 02:36:52 PM »
Ryan / Tom:

Thanks again for the detailed info -- quick last question -- is the layout worthy of my time for a visit or should it be simply tossed under the bus for other options?


cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2006, 03:16:07 PM »
Same question as Matt's, I'll be there first week April, is this worth playing?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2006, 03:16:23 PM by cary lichtenstein »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2006, 04:24:22 PM »
Depends what the other options are - as I said, I can only go off of hear-say for any relative recommendation...I'd say if you aren't planning or able to play any of the consensus "top layouts" then there really doesn't seem to be a plethora of world-class golf in the area, and SilverRock is probably going to be as good as anything else that you could pick out of a hat.  

If that's the case, then definitely play it.  It's pretty and in good shape.  I tend to enjoy more golf courses more than many of my GCA brethren (as GCA isn't the only thing that determines whether or not I enjoy a round) but if you are truly going in search of architectural merit and nothing else, then yeah, I'd look elsewhere.


Thomas_Brown

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2006, 05:21:26 PM »
Given Matt's & Cary's stds. and connections, there are 5-10 other NEEDY ones I would do first.

Matt_Ward

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2006, 10:40:36 PM »
Tom:

I respect your opinion -- of all the desert area courses where would you rate Silverock -- top ten, second ten?

Please be as clear and frank as possible.

Thanks ...

Thomas_Brown

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2006, 11:58:20 PM »
Second or third 10.
If I were forced to guess I would say its the 20th best course in the county.

You've probably seen Oak Quarry in Riverside, but I'd say that's one of the better ones to see.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2006, 09:38:25 AM »
Thomas

Have you played the new Nicklaus Design at Escena? If so, any comments? If not, what have you heard about it?

www.escenapalmsprings.com

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Thomas_Brown

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2006, 11:29:05 AM »
Steve - I haven't played it yet or talked to anyone that has.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2006, 12:32:27 PM »
Second or third 10.
If I were forced to guess I would say its the 20th best course in the county.

You've probably seen Oak Quarry in Riverside, but I'd say that's one of the better ones to see.

Thomas -

I agree with you that Oak Quarry is far better than SilverRock, but I wonder why people continually refer to it in the same sentence as Coachella Valley courses...I mean, that's FAR!  It's just as much a West Los Angeles course as it is a Coachella course...

Just splitting hairs and choosing this time as my one to interject, because yeah, I completely agree that it's more worth seeing than SR...sorry for the tangent.


Matt_Ward

Re:Silverrock in the Desert. Comments?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2006, 12:34:25 PM »
Ryan:

You are right on target. Riverside is part of the Inland Empire and is not in the immediate Cochella Valley. Hence the linkage as a desert course is not appropriate IMHO.

No tangent -- you know your geography.

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