[PThomas]

and even if so does that make it a great hole?  I mean, I would think a lot of average Joe's must officially never finish the hole since there's got to be quite a few of them that never get one on dry land

[A_Clay_Man]

In the words of the prophet, "Hell No"

Try the eighth at Pebble Beach.

[Phil_the_Author]

IMHO it isn't even the most dramatic par three. I can't imagine more dramatic hole than the 16th at Augusta.

Hearts have been broken by hitting it in the water there. The green is a dramatically 2-tiered that requires precision to 4 very different hole locations during the Masters.

Sunday lower left has brought us near hole-in-ones such as Jack's under the greatest of pressures, miraculous chips from rough where the only shot is away from the hole, a theatre of people on the opposite shore with their movements reflected in the water while on the top side of the green they crowd to overflowing, all while on many a wonderful occasion, a competitor must stop their play on 15 green because of what may occur just ahead of him, taking him out of his zone of concentration, or even further back down the fairway as incredible roars of delight echo out to the one chasing or being chased.  (That is my nomination for the longest sentence on any post in GCA history!)

All that and it doesn't include the fun of watching the players trying to skim it over the water from the front of the tees during the practice rounds!

16 on Augusta is without peer for drama.

[Dan_Callahan]

The 17th has certainly created some dramatic moments. From Tiger's long putt to Freddie's hole in one, it's a very fun hole to watch on Sunday. I also like the stories of the caddy closest-to-the-hole competitions.

[Jfaspen]

I think on a windless day, the hole deserves the title of "the most overrated hole in golf"

now.. if it was extended to play 160-165 on a calm day.. then it would be a different story.

[Kerry Gray]

Great topic.
I admit when playing the course as a recreational golfer the 17th is in your head from the first tee. From the 10th onwards rarely did a minute go by without thinking about that shot. Pete gets in your head.
I think Tiger's comments are interesting. He said something to the effect that he does not have an issue with the hole as it was built but rather where it is on the course. He would prefer it was on the front nine. He doesn't like a hole like that deciding a major tournament. I am not sure what that says about the hole but from a tournament perspective is he right?
Has it "decided" the tournament in the past?
What I would like to see is a comparison of the 17th and a similar length par 3 that is not an island. Do the pros have a lower percentage hitting the 17th than they do hitting other par 3's in regulation? With Shotlink we should be able to figure this out. Even compared to #9 at Doral.

I had my own disaster there I might add. But I have no problem with the hole as built. It is a short par 3 and the green is quite large and receptive. Mind you it looks like a postage stamp from the tee. Pete just beat me!
Cheers.
Kerry.
 

[Kerry Gray]

The 17th has certainly created some dramatic moments. From Tiger's long putt to Freddie's hole in one, it's a very fun hole to watch on Sunday. I also like the stories of the caddy closest-to-the-hole competitions.

Eh, Wasn't Freddie's a hole in 3?
He went in the water then jarred it on his 3rd for a now infamous "Freddie Couples Par."
Or am I thinking of something else.

[PThomas]

Kerry - I'm almost amazed that Tiger said that...does that mean that the hole has gotten to even Tiger , even just a little bit?

and isn't that what Pete wanted?

[Matt MacIver]

Some of what makes the drama for me is familiarity, in knowing the holes.  So in my definition I have to see the hole annually, thereby excluding for me most Open(s) and PGA Champ. courses and holes....

#16 at Augusta sure counts for me and nudges #17 at Sawgrass.  But the fact that they're both late in the round helps.  #18 at Pebble also ranks.  

[Kerry Gray]

Paul,
I think so. Interesting debate thouugh. It certainly has created some dramatic swings in scores. Combined with 18 it is a white knuckle finish.
See article here.
http://www.pga.com/news/tours/pga-tour/17th032206.cfm
Interesting.

[PThomas]

Kerry - Freddie has both a hole in 3 and a real ace there!

[Jim Nugent]

I've never played the hole.  That said, I don't like it from what I've seen on TV.  Seems like zero options, with a deadly penalty if you miss.  

[Kerry Gray]

Kerry - Freddie has both a hole in 3 and a real ace there!

I stand corrected! Thanks Paul.

[John_Cullum]

I agree with the concept that the most dramatic hole must be a par 3.
TPC 17 is pretty dramatic, but its lacking something. It's not a major, even though it's close. And you pretty well know the result as soon as the ball is struck.

I disagree on 16 at Augusta Nat. The water really doesn't come in to play except on a really bad swing.

I say 12 at Augusta Nat. because you can be really close, and then start running down the slope into the creek. Or get held up like Couples did. Nothing is dramatic as listening to the ooh and ugh of the crowd as a ball gathers speed going off into the depths.

[ForkaB]

Every hole on the back nine at Augusta is more "dramatic" than the 17th at TPC.  Partly due to architecture, but mostly because the stakes are just so much higher for the players at the Masters than at The Dean Beaman Invitational......

[Kerry Gray]

I agree with the concept that the most dramatic hole must be a par 3.
TPC 17 is pretty dramatic, but its lacking something. It's not a major, even though it's close. And you pretty well know the result as soon as the ball is struck.

I disagree on 16 at Augusta Nat. The water really doesn't come in to play except on a really bad swing.

I say 12 at Augusta Nat. because you can be really close, and then start running down the slope into the creek. Or get held up like Couples did. Nothing is dramatic as listening to the ooh and ugh of the crowd as a ball gathers speed going off into the depths.

Interesting point. #12 at Augusta certainly has eliminated plenty of people from Augusta. Remember Jeff Maggert, who may have had the biggest rollercoster ride in Major history against Weir. Thier have been many others watch their chance disappear at #12.
I think it has had a bigger impact on the Masters than #16.
Kerry

[Jordan Wall]

I love watching an Augusta finish where it all comes down to the 18th hole.

When there is a great finish at Augusta, the 18th is by far the most dramatic for me

[wsmorrison]

I think this is an excellent topic.  I don't think it is the most dramatic hole by any means.  It is easily the most identifiable drama to the masses since it is all so obvious.  For fans that like to see wrecks at Daytona, the wrecks at 17 at TPC Sawgrass are immediately known resulting in instant gratification.  

Give me 11 at Shinnecock or countless others that are more dramatic in ways that appeal to my sensibilities.  I hope I don't sound like a snob.  I just feel the 17th at TPC is too simple a presentation.  The green itself is awesome though.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Seems like zero options, with a deadly penalty if you miss.  

I think it's a good thing.

The only option is to execute the shot under serious pressure, or be in the drink.

On this hole, in this tournament - I say options, shmoptions.

[David Panzarasa]

i dont see how one cant think it is the most dramatic hole in golf. It is not the best hole or even close to one, but it is dramtic. I personally dont think the holes at augusta are as dramtic at all. Better holes for sure.
 Watch this weekend, and watch how important it is for the player JUST to hit the green. Not make birdie, but get on the green. There is a relief there once they see it has landed. That is dramatic! only one hole to play, and that single shot can cost you the tourny! You cant say that on any other hole in golf.
 I am not saying it is a great hole at all! I have played it many times and simply is not a hard hole, and for people that have never seen it in person, the island is MUCH larger in person! but, I am not playing for possibly the 5th most important tourny of the year! I think people that dont think it is the most dramatic hole in golf just simply dont like the hole or the course. why do you need options on this hole??? that is what makes it so great for the tourny, it put it on the green or else...what options do you need or want? it is in the water or it is not, there is your options. and at the most important time of the round and especially come saturday and sunday, and shows basic golf skills and nerves. I cant stress enough that this is such an easy hole to land on the green, a simple basic shot, yet when the pressure is on and you see the finish line only 500 yards away, it becomes the most dramtic hole in golf.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Kerry - Freddie has both a hole in 3 and a real ace there!

In fact the ace was the next year if I'm not mistaken, with the pin on the right side where he'd also made birdie a few years before to go on to win.  That par he made is one of my favorite TV moments, and registered absolutely zero reaction from him at the time.

One thing I don't think anyone can argue against is the fact that the 17th is one of the best "TV golf" holes out there.  Viewers get to see the pros look as nervous as they themselves would be, and show the same sort of relief, puzzlement, and excitement over the results.

The other day while driving through Wisconsin I spotted a sign for a golf course I'd never heard of proudly proclaiming "the only island green in the area."  That should say something about the popularity and excitement with which the general golfing public views the hole.

As far as Tiger goes, one of his first major dramatic moments occurred on the 17th (not "the putt," but the birdie from the right fringe in the '94 Amateur that finally gave him the lead in the final match against Trip Kuehne), and the thing that makes Sawgrass unique is that the finish is demanding but can be had with some solid shotmaking.  It's about club selection, solid contact, and a committed swing.  I don't see anything wrong with a test like that under tournament pressure, and I like its position on the course.

[mike_malone]

 I hope I don't sound like a snob. ---Wayne Morrison


   Wayne,

    It is better to embrace your snobbishness ; don't deny it.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Seems like zero options  

What do you call that bailout bunker in the front?  

[PThomas]

I can't recall EVER seeing anyone in that bunker!

12 at Augusta is the first other hole that comes to mind regarding dramatics

and slightly off the wall:  is there a better hole to sit by on a sunny day, having some beers. and watching the boys take aim  than 17?

[Mike Hendren]

The pucker factor at Augusta's 12th and TPC's 17th are off the charts.  

The inherent drama of both holes is enhanced by the fact that they're staring you in the face as you round the fairway of the previous hole.  You can't avoid glancing at either green from the previous fairway.  

The wind and amazing shallowness and angle of the 12th make if a far more difficult test, but nobody wants to kiss the wall at Daytona once the white flag's been waived and nobody wants to gag a big tournament on the 71st hole.  Ask Greg Owen.

Play TPC and in all likelihood you'll hear players in the two foursomes in front of you cheer when someone hits the 17th green.  It's a feat.

Mike

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()