[wsmorrison]

Tom Paul has long mentioned that he felt early golf courses were designed with a strong influence from the horse world.  Today, I found an article in the May 3, 1896 New York Times discussing golf in Philadelphia.  The article spoke mainly of golf at Philadelphia Country Club, which seems to be the earliest club in the city with a formal golf course.  The drawing showing the first hole and some of the hole descriptions certainly remind me of features used in horse jumping and steeplechase racing:



"The tee for the first hole is close by the clubhouse, the distance to the green being 230 yards.  A stone wall 125 yards from the tee acts as a formidable hazard, although a good driver can always clear it.  Twenty yards beyond the hole is a sunken road, which will give trouble to the player who miscalculates his approach shot.  The second, known as the Forest hole, is about 160 yards distant, a good drive, landing the player's ball close to the green.  A hedge, a sunken road, and a small earth bunker are the hazards.  The third is known as the Liverpool Jump hole, and the man who fails to get a good drive will encounter no end of difficulties.  A road and a high hedge, twenty feet above the level of the tee, must be crossed to get safely on the smooth ground beyond...

...The tee for the next hole is on high ground, this part of the course being the most picturesque.  The hole, on account of the miseries to be avoided and the inevitable sorrows awaiting the unfortunate player, has been appropriately dubbed the Hades hole, and every golfer breathes easier when he reaches the green.  Its distance is 333 yards.  Forty yards in front of the tee, the same hedge has to be crossed again, this hedge being the boundary of the club grounds...the next (eighth), the Race Track hole, is not much shorter, being 343 yards,..."

The course overlooked part of the club's horse facilities.  It seems evident that the golf course was designed with inspiration from the world of horse racing at the time.

[wsmorrison]

The silence is deafening.  Tom MacWood, no comments whatsoever?

[Andy Hughes]

Wayne, is it the hedge that must be played over, or the name of the Liverpool Jump hole, or something else that you are saying shows the influence of the horse world upon the architecture?

[ForkaB]

Andy

I think the picture shows a short hitter having to play out of a hazard of accumulated horse poo.  Notice how far away the rest of the guys are standing.....

[Andy Hughes]

Rich, you may be right. Maybe that's why the short hitter is aimed ~ 90 yards right of the green--he's in a hurry to get out of the 'hazard.' And the grass does seem rather lush in that area.

[A_Clay_Man]

Wayne, is this a class based regional phenom?

Is Philly the home of other horse based clubs? Polo?

Have you come upon other references to the equine in other courses?

An interesting corrolation between the horse and the dog. The native american indians had no name for horse when the Spanish introduced them to the continent. So, they called them large dogs. "Meesta-eem" is one example of an ancient language that used "large dog" to refer to horses.

At Forrest's Hideout in Ut. There is a horsehead-like image visible in the distant mountains. When the light is right, and the viewer has an opened mind.
Also, Oddly enough his routing schematic looks like a horsehead, too.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Wayne-

  You and I have not talked about this prior, to my knowledge.  Based on your conversations, and observations, with Tom, is this something you have seen at other clubs' early courses in the Philly area?  

  Did you say, perhaps on here in the past-that George Thomas' first course, in Marion, MA, had the same type of hazards--aerial hazards--to be crossed?  

Where I am going with this is that I'd be interested to see if this was a phenomenon exclusive to Philadelphia or was also utilized in other centers of population where golf had made an early foothold in society, late 1800's.  

Would this be exclusive to the Northeast?  (Boston, New York, Philadelphia?) I wonder how it manifested itself in South Carolina, around Charleston, as the CC Charleston is oneof the oldest golf club in the United States, dating from sometime in the late 1700's, correct?  

[Bill Gayne]

Wayne,

It's a function of seasonality. Steeplechase and fox hunting are spring and fall sports that are run over a couple hundred acres of pasture land. During the summer is when many ring or jumping activities occur. The steeplechase and foxhunting is too taxing for the horses and riders during a humid summer day in the northeast. The ring events are less taxing and require less land. The question was probably raised how can we get use out of a couple hundred acres of pasture land in the summer? The answer was try to incorporate golf. As the horse sports died in popularity the golf component became the focal point.

In a reverse sense, I think this is what's going on with many of the praire golf clubs being built today. Fairly short golf season and get use of the facility and land with bird hunting in the fall and winter.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

They'll be playing over an old race track at Royal Liverpool in this summer's Open Championship.

[ET]

Wayne probably knows that Phila. Country Club was originally a polo club at the Ciy Line ave. location. Barriers, jumps were maybe for training horses and/or shows.

[John Goodman]

Not sure about this horse business.

The Country Club at Brookline was described thusly in 1899:  "Although well-nigh perfect in affording good lies through the green, and having excellent teeing grounds and putting greens, the necessity of maintaining a race track and steeplechase course over parts of which the golfers must play has kept The Country Club from having an ideal links. . . . Among the hazards on the old course, some of which have been criticized by the golfing experts, are 'an avenue, steeplechase course, race track, polo fields, pigeon-shooting grounds, stone-wall jump, sand bunker and bastion, a water jump, and a vast gravel pit or crater.'"

(from "Golfing Round the Hub," George H. Sargeant, reprinted in "Golf: A Turn of the Century Treasury.")

On the other hand, an article from The Golfer (May 1898) opines that the grounds of Myopia Hunt Club "were naturally adapted to golf . . .  It was only natural that the cry of 'Fore!' should be heard mingling with the whistle of the quail and the music of the kennelled hounds."        

[Marty Bonnar]

a hazard of accumulated horse poo.

...which is of course in violation of Rule 19 - 'Ball in motion deflected or stopped'!

ah, the old ones are the best - and only seven posts to go now...

FBD.

[TEPaul]

Wayne:

It seems we are beginning to find more and more references and examples in early golf (and golf architecture) writing and reporting to horse sports that preceded golf such as steeplechasing, cross country competition and the world of horse recreation and competition such as jumping, equestrianism or even horse racing in both Great Britain and America in that early time when golf first began to emigrate out of Scotland.

These examples and references to them seem to be cropping up more and more (as we research that early second half 19th century era more and more) and they seem to appear in most all those places which may be loosely categorized as "inland" sites.

And, if one thinks about it, why wouldn't it be so? The world of horse recreation and competition was what a good many of the early clubs were about before golf was added as it first began to develop in inland England, Ireland and then America.

I seriously doubt the extreme similarities can be denied of the first rudimentary golf architectural features, particulalry the early rudimentary golf "hazard" or "obstacle" features that looked so much like steeplechase obstacles such as earthen berms, brush hedges, fence and stone wall jumps, sunken pits (water or sand) etc that generally fronted the horse jumps.  

In that early rudimenatary time of golf not long after man-made golf architecture first begun outside the Scottish linksland (around 1850) these kinds of extreme similarities of features were probably not viewed as any kind of aesthetic, merely a convenient and functional nearby functional model that worked well enough in the first early and rudimentary inland golf courses.

The point is the extreme similarities are becoming far more extensive than we obviously first realized. It appears undeniable that it was more than just some occasional coincidence.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

Not only was there a similarity of features in some cases but probably a duplicate use of the identical features in other cases.  Not only were some of the courses nearby and therefore influencial, but as stated previously, some golf courses shared the same ground as the horseworld.

I don't think the oval at The Country Club is a good example.  At some point it was a cinder track and that was probably a nuisance.  

But the jumps, hedges, pits and other features in the horse world, such as found at Philadelphia Country Club were replicated in man-made features on distinct courses.  I don't think this can be argued and the influence a solid and not dotted line.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Wayne:

It seems we are beginning to find more and more references and examples in early golf (and golf architecture) writing and reporting to horse sports that preceded golf such as steeplechasing, cross country competition and the world of horse recreation and competition such as jumping, equestrianism or even horse racing in both Great Britain and America in that early time when golf first began to emigrate out of Scotland.

These examples and references to them seem to be cropping up more and more (as we research that early second half 19th century era more and more) and they seem to appear in most all those places which may be loosely categorized as "inland" sites.

And, if one thinks about it, why wouldn't it be so? The world of horse recreation and competition was what a good many of the early clubs were about before golf was added as it first began to develop in inland England, Ireland and then America.

I seriously doubt the extreme similarities can be denied of the first rudimentary golf architectural features, particulalry the early rudimentary golf "hazard" or "obstacle" features that looked so much like steeplechase obstacles such as earthen berms, brush hedges, fence and stone wall jumps, sunken pits (water or sand) etc that generally fronted the horse jumps.  

In that early rudimenatary time of golf not long after man-made golf architecture first begun outside the Scottish linksland (around 1850) these kinds of extreme similarities of features were probably not viewed as any kind of aesthetic, merely a convenient and functional nearby functional model that worked well enough in the first early and rudimentary inland golf courses.

The point is the extreme similarities are becoming far more extensive than we obviously first realized. It appears undeniable that it was more than just some occasional coincidence.

Tom-

  As I asked yesterday, do or did you and Wayne see this in areas other than Philadelphia?  Was this more exclusive to the Northeast?  

[TEPaul]

"....but as stated previously, some golf courses shared the same ground as the horseworld."

Wayne:

Of course they did. One can see that over and over again golf cropped up at previously existing clubs that centered around or included this kind of horse recreation and competition. We also certainly can't forget that the horse was the world's most prevalent mode of transportation as well. Automobiles did not much exist at that point.

This time was obviously why so many clubs began to depend on the rail line as a transportation nexus. From around the first third of the 19th century on the expansion of rail was perhaps the most capital intensive requirement in GB and it certainly was in America.

I just finished (re)reading a book about perhaps America's primary "financier" in the second half of the 19th century. The massive expansion of rail and railway was the largest capital requirement there was overall. It exceeded the capital requirement of everything, including wars up until WW1. That was when the USA had no central bank.

[wsmorrison]

The first billion dollar company was a railroad, the Pennsylvania RR

I know you know this, Tom, but others may not:

In the US, railroads were part of the monopoly that the greatest captains of industry had...they owned the mines, owned the railroads that brought the petroleum/minerals/ore to be processed and owned the railroads that brought the finished products to market.  They could fix costs and drive competition out of business.  We'll by you or break you was their ultimate threat.

Railroads expanded population centers and allowed access to golf in the UK and in the States.  The "Main Line" west out of Philadelphia led to the development of suburbia in these parts.  The railroads owned the land rights around the tracks and developed the real estate along it.  The same was done in Chestnut Hill north of the Schuykill where George Woodward established one of, if not the, first suburb in America.  Golf was there with the orginal Philadelphia Cricket Club.

By the way, Tom.  I just found in the May 1927 Golf Illustrated a photo of the old (Noble) Huntingdon Valley 18th hole and there's a basket rather than a flag!  Looks like Flynn and Peters sold at least 18 more than we thought  

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne,

However, the importance of railroads was several decades before that - between 1825-1860. Everything after was momentum, since the railroad paradigm didn't change. Railroad growth after 1865 was mainly horizontal. This lack of change lead to the railroad's demise, just so happened that there was SO MUCH momentum that the companies could last into the 1960s and 1970s.

A more modern example of this is Bethleham Steel, and soon to be Microsoft. Both are companies that built up momentum early on and basically became large suckling cash cows for investors until they were bled to death.

We happen to live at the very nexus/genesis of industrial development in the United States. You happen to overstate the importance of PRR but your heart is in the right area, just on the other side of the Schuylkill with the Reading Railroad - which was the life blood of the American Industrial Revolution. However, the railroads did not own the mines. The Reading Railroad and the Reading Coal & Iron Company are more indicative of the symbiosis going on. Coincidentally, Reading Coal & Iron still exists while the Reading Company does not.

I also feel your argument needs further support from the common thread between golf and horse riding: necessity. More specifically, military necessity. Horsemanship and steeplechase courses developed out of a need for able horseman in time of war; able to traverse any sort of "hazard" like fence posts, bodies of water, hedgerows and mud.

Ocham's razor may also come into play here. How else would golf courses make hazards? It's hard to build a hazard in mid air that had to be hit under, and the hazards that you did have to hit a ball under were found in another game: croquet. Also, why learn how to hit a ball in the air and not have something to hit the ball over? To me, these hazards developed more out of necessity and simplicity than any meaningful connection between steeplechase and horse courses.

BTW, Dev Emmet was pretty well known for designing courses that were dubbed "Steeplechase" both due to the circular nature of the routing and the needed to traverse the hazards through the air.

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne:

It seems we are beginning to find more and more references and examples in early golf (and golf architecture) writing and reporting to horse sports that preceded golf such as steeplechasing, cross country competition and the world of horse recreation and competition such as jumping, equestrianism or even horse racing in both Great Britain and America in that early time when golf first began to emigrate out of Scotland.

These examples and references to them seem to be cropping up more and more (as we research that early second half 19th century era more and more) and they seem to appear in most all those places which may be loosely categorized as "inland" sites.

And, if one thinks about it, why wouldn't it be so? The world of horse recreation and competition was what a good many of the early clubs were about before golf was added as it first began to develop in inland England, Ireland and then America.

I seriously doubt the extreme similarities can be denied of the first rudimentary golf architectural features, particulalry the early rudimentary golf "hazard" or "obstacle" features that looked so much like steeplechase obstacles such as earthen berms, brush hedges, fence and stone wall jumps, sunken pits (water or sand) etc that generally fronted the horse jumps.  

In that early rudimenatary time of golf not long after man-made golf architecture first begun outside the Scottish linksland (around 1850) these kinds of extreme similarities of features were probably not viewed as any kind of aesthetic, merely a convenient and functional nearby functional model that worked well enough in the first early and rudimentary inland golf courses.

The point is the extreme similarities are becoming far more extensive than we obviously first realized. It appears undeniable that it was more than just some occasional coincidence.

Tom,

It is reasonable to conclude that such synthesis made on the part of the writings you cite is only to draw comparison and analogy than true causality. Connection, as we all know, is not causation.

[TEPaul]

"Tom-
As I asked yesterday, do or did you and Wayne see this in areas other than Philadelphia?  Was this more exclusive to the Northeast?"

Doug:

This appears to be true at more inland sites after about 1850 and on into the beginning of the 20th century in England, Ireland, and certainly in and around many American metropolitian centers such as Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago etc, etc far more than was apparently previously realized by those today or in modern times.

I mean the similarities and design and construction connections are basically undeniable---all one has to do as look at it. And now, of course, we are beginning to find more numerous writing (and drawing) references from back then to it.

[wsmorrison]

Kyle,

I never said the railroads owned the mines, the men who owned the railroads owned the mines, refining and industrial complexes that used the raw materials and the railroads that brought the finished products to market.

What common thread is their between golf and horse riding and the necessity of horsemanship for military applications?  Of horse riding and military, yes.  Did the Light Brigade charge with drawn mashies?  

Forget Ocham's razor, I use Schick.  By the way, you don't have to build a hazard in mid air, all you have to do is use or plant trees    Also, I'm not talking about the use of hazards but rather the style of hazards being linked to the horse world.  Quit coming down so hard on the concept.  It is not so far removed from your own understanding.

I would be interested, and Tommy certainly so, if you could provide some references for Dev Emmet's courses being referred to as Steeplechase since that too adds credibility to the argument.  That would be a nice help.

Now, let me get back to work and you my young friend need to take it easy on me...I'm sensitive

[Chris Moore]

My club here in New Orleans (New Orleans Country Club) was built over the old Oakland horse track.  Interesting observation about the ties of golf to the horse world and steeplechase racing.  

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne,

It's all academic rigor to me. Hell, let's you, me and Tommy get some high back leather chairs, a few snifters of brandy and monocles and sit in front of a fireplace in a library that smells of rich mahagony somewhere.

I may counter your argument but I am rooting for you to prove the counter wrong, and I am sure you'll agree that it helps hone a point though. Don't make me use green ink.  

My necessity point just boils down to form follows function. The steeplechase hazards had a function of needing to be cleared through the air. To me, it is logical to conclude that similar features could be employed on golf courses.

I like the aesthetic ideal though, and I feel it is a good concept. Interesting the tie in to my other thread about equipment dictating the architecture, as well.

Golf played on linksland developed sand bunkers as hazards.

Golf played inland developed aerial hazards. These hazards were stylized in a similar manner to steeplechase courses. It would be interesting to track the independent developments of the two ideas before they merged thanks to CB Mac.

Could there have been a strategic "horse track" course wait in the midst? What if Flynn had steeplechase features in lieu of bunkers?  

The Dev Emmet references are various and sundry. Right now the best I can give you is from The Architects' Club website regarding their 4th Hole: http://www.thearchitectsclub.com/gallery.htm

"Devereux Emmet (1861-1934), who made his golf holes seem like steeplechase courses. To succeed on an Emmet hole, golfers have to clear his hazards through the air. His best works include Wee Burn in Connecticut and Leatherstocking in Cooperstown, N.Y."

I have more lying around, probably in one of Shackelford's books. Lemme dig it up, since the above is hardly conclusive.

BTW, I see the Reading Railroad as the William Flynn to the Pennsy's Donald Ross... get out of your R5 haven in Narberth sometime.  

[TEPaul]

"The "Main Line" west out of Philadelphia led to the development of suburbia in these parts."

Wayne:

From this book I just found out how that kind of thing happened. For instance, Drexel & Co. financed the Pennsylvania RR and the Reading RR and then Drexel and George Childs (the owner/publisher of the Philadelphia Ledger newspaper (one of the biggest in the US)) built 50 suburban estates at a point along the Main Line RR with all the latest conveniences. This created the town of Wayne, for instance.

When they were asked why they did something like that they humorously responded; "So more people will read the Philadelphia Ledger on the way into town."  

George Childs ran the powerful Philadelphia Ledger for decades beginning in the 1870s. His best friend, A.J. Drexel, bought it for him.

Just as an example of how interconnected that world was back then and an interesting connection to golf architecture for us to consider----was that the great architect Geo Thomas (who never took a nickel for all the great courses he designed and built) was a very wealthy man because his father (George Thomas) made a fortune as one of the partners of Drexel & Co.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

The Dev Emmet references are various and sundry. Right now the best I can give you is from The Architects' Club website regarding their 4th Hole: http://www.thearchitectsclub.com/gallery.htm

"Devereux Emmet (1861-1934), who made his golf holes seem like steeplechase courses. To succeed on an Emmet hole, golfers have to clear his hazards through the air. His best works include Wee Burn in Connecticut and Leatherstocking in Cooperstown, N.Y."

Kyle-

  I've seen this reference as well wrapped in all the marketing of the Architects Club.  I wonder how much is true and how much is artistic license--read--b.s.--because your favorite architect wasn't the only architect to use aerial hazards.  

  I propose a GCA/Dev Emmet tour of LI sometime  

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