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Brendan Dolan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« on: February 14, 2006, 12:38:05 AM »
Barnbougle Dunes is one of the most talked about courses on this discussion group, and from pictures and other members accounts it seems very deserving of all its praises.   I certainly hope to play it at some point.  In trying to find more information about the course I went to their website and found a preliminary routing.  It seems that there were a number of changes to the original routing.  I understand that this is not an abnormal occurrence, but happens quite often in the design and construction phase.



My main question is how did Barnbougle become the golf course it is today.  Since both Mr. Doak and Mr. Clayton our members of the discussion group, I thought that this might be a good course to ask about the design and construction process.  If these two don’t mind sharing their stories, I would love to know more about the design process.  How tees, fairways, bunkers, and greens were constructed and seeded?  Any problems that may have been encountered?

Thanks,
Brendan    

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 02:39:35 AM »

My main question is how did Barnbougle become the golf course it is today.

Greg Ramsey, an occasional poster here, is the Founder of BB Dunes. Greg is a young guy from Oz who found the farmer and set the vision and made it happen with the standard few bumps along the way.

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 04:45:51 AM »
You're absolutely right. Nobody is forced to read or reply to anything.

I think architects nearly always tweek routing. It's a matter maybe  of sacrificing one great hole for three excellent holes, or maybe a change in location of the clubhouse etc. I think it's like a menu in a restraunt. I prefer to have a small choice so I don't miss out on anything else I know will be good.
John Marr(inan)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2006, 08:49:58 AM »
That original routing pictured above was the result of my first two-day visit to the site and a lot of work on the map afterward.  However, it had its problems, and I had a lot of people commenting on the layout afterward.  Greg Ramsay had a couple of holes in mind he wanted us to include [the sixth made the final cut, but a couple of others did not].  

It was Mike Keiser who went to the site in 2001 and suggested that the back nine might be better off routed in the other direction, so that the finishing holes played along the beach.  We hadn't been able to do that at Pacific Dunes and lots of "retail golfers" have told him we should have.  Up until then, I had been blindly in love with hole #10 on the plan above -- an homage to the first at Machrihanish -- but when I went back there in December 2002, I had to admit that the proposed green would get buried with sand regularly [that's why we drew two of them], so we started looking at alternatives including Mike's suggestion.  I stumbled upon the site for the 17th green and tee and then we figured out how to make the rest of it work.  The current 13th green is the only other green in the same position on that nine.

We never drew up the final routing for the course because it was still unclear at that point whether Greg was going to find funding for the course, or whether he might eventually get desperate and let Greg Norman bring funds to the table -- in which case neither Mike Clayton nor myself wanted to provide our routing on paper!  And once the funding was in place, via Richard Sattler, there was no need to draw the routing, our crew was on the ground and getting their instructions directly from the source.

The back nine routing did evolve a bit just before we started, as well.  I knew that the third hole shown on the plan above would be impossible into the wind, but I loved the green site, so eventually we broke it up into two short par-4's going out.  4 & 5 as depicted are the current fifth and sixth; what's shown as #6 here is fairly close to the Little Devil but we had actually given that hole up at one point and Mike Clayton suggested putting it back; and then the eighth and ninth are different because Greg wanted so much to get the green site for the eighth near the water.

I love Greg Ramsay and it's correct to credit him with the vision for the course, but just because he was visible on Golf Club Atlas way back when does not mean he "made it happen."  Richard Sattler decided to take the leap of faith, and I made an offer he couldn't refuse, or Barnbougle would still be no more than Greg's unfulfilled dream.

There is a souvenir book about Barnbougle to be released in the spring, which I've just seen the proofs of.  Unfortunately I didn't write much of it so the full story of the routing is not included in it.

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2006, 09:59:21 AM »
Tom

So there is no as-built routing map of Barnbougle? Will there be one in the book (and for that note, is the book availabe outside of the club?)?

I saw some interesting renderings someone did which looks like it came from a unique yardage guide, but not sure.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2006, 12:40:41 PM »
The drawings in the yardage book are by the hand of Michael Cocking, an associate of Michael Clayton's who is an excellent artist.  But if he has drawn a finished plan of the course, I have not seen it, and he owes me a couple of favors for getting him on golf courses on the west coast, so he really ought to send one.

The larger point, though, is that we built a pretty good golf course without ever even drawing a plan of it.  That's got to be some kind of record for the modern age.

tonyt

Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2006, 02:12:41 PM »
For those not wanting to sift through the hole by hole pictorials linked in the thread currently on page 4, here is a link to the album, with photos from the playing perspective from tee to green on all 18 holes.

Cheers,

Tony

http://photobucket.com/albums/c174/ttitheridge/Barny%20Trip/

Brendan Dolan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 02:23:38 PM »
Mr. Doak, thanks a lot for describing how the routing came along.  Very interesting stuff.  Is there an irrigation system at Barnbougle Dunes?  How were you able to maintain all the wild contours in the fairways during seeding?  Are both the greens and tees made out of native soils.  Thanks a lot for any responses, just trying to get a better idea of how a great golf course is constructed.

Brendan

Brian Walshe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2006, 04:28:36 PM »
Tom,

Are there any things at Barnbougle that you'd like to change?  

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2006, 04:35:18 PM »
I love Greg Ramsay and it's correct to credit him with the vision for the course, but just because he was visible on Golf Club Atlas way back when does not mean he "made it happen."  Richard Sattler decided to take the leap of faith, and I made an offer he couldn't refuse, or Barnbougle would still be no more than Greg's unfulfilled dream.

Sometimes "making it happen" means doing exactly what you said. Most "one man jobs" and "overnight success stories" are more often than not actually collaborations that took years to get off the ground.

I also think it's a little unfair to Greg to say it would be an unfulfilled dream without the changes. Entrepreneurs, visionaries, call em what you will, figure out a way to get things done, even if it means knowing when to hand the ball off to someone else.

 :)

Can't wait to get my hands on a copy of the book.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Simon Kofoed

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Barnbougle Dunes - How did it get there?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2006, 05:42:23 PM »
I played at Barnbougle on 17 & 18 February last year and I was given an A4 page in the pro shop with the current routing, which from memory looks very similar to what is posted below (maybe not quite as detailed).

Whether it was drawn by Michael Cocking, Renaissance Golf or somebody else I'm not sure, but it was not attached to the yardage book and from memory it was more detailed than something you would find on the back of a scorecard. I'll have to check when I get home.

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