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Kyle Harris

Member Changes
« on: January 26, 2006, 11:21:52 AM »
What changes are the most common to be made to a golf course, from the original design, by a membership?

My first choice would be tree plantings... they seem to start popping up a little bit over a year after an opening date and then just snow ball from there.

Second would be changing water courses to ease drainage or walking traffic. This seems to be a necessary step in the evolution of any golf course.

Third would be new tee boxes, either forward or back.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2006, 11:36:30 AM by Kyle Harris »

mike_malone

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2006, 11:24:43 AM »
 Kyle,

    I have seen the adding of islands of turf in huge bunkers.
AKA Mayday

Kyle Harris

Re:Member Changes
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2006, 11:26:26 AM »
17 at Rolling Green?

Or was that the removal of?

mike_malone

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2006, 11:30:34 AM »
 #1 #3  #5 #10 are a few These show up in the first photos after 1926
« Last Edit: January 26, 2006, 11:32:12 AM by mayday_malone »
AKA Mayday

A.G._Crockett

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2006, 11:34:34 AM »
My guess, and it is only that, is that bunkers are added or subtracted by Greens Committee chairs, often according to the needs or problems of their own games.  

There is a story (which I believe to be true) about Byron Nelson selecting the 11th hole at Hope Valley CC in Durham, NC as one of his favorite 18 holes from his 11 tournament win streak (he won the Durham Open there).  At the time, there was a creek running down the length of the right side of the hole, and very much in play.

A subsequent green committee had the creek piped, apparently for no reason other than that they didn't want it in play.  A number of years later, Ben Hogan was playing a exhibition with Mike Souchak at HVCC, and when he got to the 11th tee, Hogan looked down the fairway and asked what had happened to the creek.  When told, Hogan is reported to have referred to Nelson's list and said "Tell'em they ruined a great golf hole" in reference to the greens committee decision.

There were also several bunkers added to the course over the years that Brian Silva removed when he renovated it a couple of years ago, most notably a savior bunker on the left side of the 4th fairway that kept hooks out of the same creek mentioned above.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jason Topp

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2006, 11:37:43 AM »
Really expensive clubhouses.

corey miller

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2006, 11:52:57 AM »


Trees are an obvious answer.  Are there any architects that suggest tree plantings along the fairways?  

The one I have become aware of at my club is the elimination of archtiectural features that are deemed irrelevant.  "nobody goes in that bunker".  Often these changes are deemed necesary or deemed appropriate because of the course not being maintained properly which is often  a function of member input also.

At my club we have a wonderful par 3 over a gulley that plays about 170 yards.  The green has a small flat pinnable area in the back with an unpinnable area (deceptively so) leading up to it.  There is a bunker in the back of the green.  Not sure what happened first but the problems:

1.  Too many trees around the green making it the softest on the course. Balls barely roll.

2.  Green shrinks in back so the flat space becomes to small to remain a green and the ridge leading up is to severe.

3.  Back 1/3 of green now becomes unpinnable.

4.  Rough/collar grows higher and wider in the back

5.  Pin is never in back third and rough stops any ball that is badly mishit so "nobody goes in that bunker" so it is removed.

Do you now how hard it is to get a membership to add back a bunker that has not been in play for the last twenty years?  Do you know how hard it is to get the bunker back in play when the membership hires a restoration architect that is more interested in getting the job, and moving greens than classic features?

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2006, 12:00:43 PM »
The planting of trees, alteration to the bunkering, changing the contours of greens - especially after the laying on of water to the greens.

Joe Hancock

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2006, 08:47:16 PM »
When I read the title, I thought this was going to be an O/T discussion about ED..........

Just when I thought I would learn something really useful.....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

cary lichtenstein

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2006, 08:50:23 PM »
they inject the same stuff that made camels and donkeys
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Chris Neff

Re:Member Changes
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2006, 09:02:26 PM »
How about landscape around the course. Trees are one thing but an over abundance of landscape installed can be a huge change to the original design.

Chris Neff

Jim Sweeney

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2006, 09:30:36 PM »
Comtinuos cart paths, done on the cheap by the resident asphalt or concrete company owner, that fall apart in two years.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Member Changes
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2006, 01:49:59 AM »
Kyle,

At the present time, I can't think of any changes to a golf course, done solely by the members, that resulted in an improvement to the golf course.

Kyle Harris

Re:Member Changes
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2006, 06:07:16 AM »
Pat,

I didn't necessarily say it had to be an improvement. Just wondering how members gummy up the whole thing!

 ;)

Kyle Harris

Re:Member Changes
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2006, 10:30:52 PM »
Cart paths were certainly one I hadn't thought of, and they may replace tree plantings as my number 1 - though I can only think of a few *really* agregious examples. They mainly deal with a desire for 1st tee to 18th green asphalt/concrete.


Joe Hancock

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Re:Member Changes
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2006, 10:53:01 PM »
Additional hideous, expensive buildings on the course for golfers to go potty.....

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

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