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Jay Flemma

Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« on: March 24, 2006, 08:53:46 PM »
I was telling a colleague about GCA and when describing it, I said it was sort of a think tank on the subject of GCA.

dictionary.com defines a think tank as :

think tank
n.
    A group or an institution organized for intensive research and solving of problems, especially in the areas of technology, social or political strategy, or armament.

Now I know we couple that with Ran's mission statement and our gentleman's agreement to try to always speak to one another over the net as though we were having dinner face to face...

...stop laughing, I can hear you laughing from here...

anyway I know that we weren't organized with the PRIMARY purpose and goal of furthering GCA research, but that is what we do every single day and at the highest level the world has yet seen.

I'd have to say, yes...we are a loose, but highly academic, highly accurate, and highly explorative group.  We analyze old ideas and new, address every known topic in the discipline.  We have established experts in every endeavor from design to super to real estate to writing.

Most importantly, our collective voice serves a great public good...to educate on the topic, to promote the participants endeavors, to study present work and guide policy for future design.

Sounds like a think tank to me...and a rather interesting and fun one.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2006, 09:13:48 PM »
Others might describe this group as obessive, compulsive, single minded, wannabes
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2006, 09:51:22 PM »
I don't think  "think tank" would be the right word.  This site is very very selective of the golf architecture it discusses....it is not quite a la la land but it has no interest in delving into the actual golf architecture business as it applies to most of the industry.  It is informative when discussing the select group of projects it discusses but is not practical for most situations IMHO.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2006, 09:51:41 PM »
I like think tank better!

you make a lot of sense with that post Jay!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2006, 10:35:17 PM »
I don't think this group is subversive enough to be a "think tank".
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2006, 10:41:04 PM »
Mike Young, I think I disagree to a certain extent.   Au contraire, I think this group seeks the ideal it most appreciates from the past and tries to find equivalence in modern design attributes.

It isn't always there in modern designs, and maybe it can't be.  But the collective culture of GCA is to appreciate classic elements in modern designs.

Does this make any sense?

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2006, 10:49:51 PM »
Bill,
I'm not saying I don't enjoy reading and participating in this site but it is extremely idealistic and not very realistic.....you know how I feel about groups like DRS and other "dead guy" groups....now this site is no where near that whacky.  A lot of people on this site study architecture with a passion and are very educated on their particular segment but the realistic part of the business doesn't hold the interest that the idealistic does.  
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2006, 11:05:34 PM »
What I think you are saying is exactly true -- 90-98% of golfers just like it if it's green and the greens aren't shaggy, while the GCA crowd truly appreciates what you "live guys" do!  It was a ball seeing what Forrest did at the Wigwam Gold, just as I enjoyed seeing your wide fairways and angled shot requirements at Cateechee.  There's a lot of golf courses being designed today that are formulaic and not particularly interesting.  That's why I like playing the 'dead guys' courses as well as the 'new guys' who can make you feel like you're playing a course based on the same values.

Call me a 'hopeless romantic' and you won't be far off.

I only wax poetic like this after a couple of martinis chased by a couple of glasses of sauvignon blanc with the tuna special.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2006, 01:26:16 AM »
Mike,
   I presume you are talking about meeting the desires of your clients in the jobs you do. I would be interested in hearing howwhat you ideally would like to do with a site was compromised by what the client wanted. What other realities of golf course architecture are we missing out on?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2006, 02:08:29 AM »
Wait, don't people on think tanks like the Cato Institute or Rand get a half million dollars a year or more?  I think my check got lost in the mail, can someone please look into this for me!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Jay Flemma

Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2006, 12:57:47 PM »
Doug, your check is in Southern Pines;)...and you better fix your hovercraft quick!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2006, 07:20:04 PM »
Jay,

I think it's more of a resource than a think tank.

However, understanding the resources at your disposal,
I don't think the conversion would be difficult.

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2006, 09:25:34 PM »
Jay,

Given the rigidity of many positions held by the some mebers of the site I would say it is, at times, more of a shout tank.  A think tank would be a noble goal for the group and well worth aspiring toward.

Cheers!

JT
Jim Thompson

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2006, 12:00:25 AM »
Well, I have no illusions that I'll ever be invited into the inner sanctums of a "think tank".  Or if I were to find myself in one, I'd probably feel like a scuba diver, out of air and 100ft from the surface... ::)

But, I'll go with Pat's thoughts that GCA is a good subject resource to explore issues..  We are all savvy enough to know that everything we read, and that "we" write, that appears on the Internet, is not to be taken for authentic or authoritative, on its own - generally speaking.  But, we do sift and winnow around here, and sometimes get close to defining various aspects of GCA.

Mike Young, I believe that you are a bit harsh in what you say...
Quote
I don't think  "think tank" would be the right word.  This site is very very selective of the golf architecture it discusses....it is not quite a la la land but it has no interest in delving into the actual golf architecture business as it applies to most of the industry.  It is informative when discussing the select group of projects it discusses but is not practical for most situations IMHO.

and

A lot of people on this site study architecture with a passion and are very educated on their particular segment but the realistic part of the business doesn't hold the interest that the idealistic does.

I believe that when any of you professional archies bring a practical discussion about the so-called realities of your business to the discussion, it gets a fair and comprehensive airing out.  I assume you are speaking of the realities of $$$ management, and construction techniques, and phazing projects, and so forth.  

The trouble is, most archies don't bring those specific reality topics to us for a discussion.  To some extent, there might be ASGCA ethics involved in discussion of the realities and nuts an bolts because such discussions might inevitably bring up conflicts of opinion that might identify certain deficiencies of one archie or the other, and would be contrary to the professional code of ethics of the Society.  Another reason that archies may not bring details is because it might reveal competitive business practices that are preferred to be kept private.  

But, I think if an archie that feels they are passed over in GCA.com discussions because the group think is bias towards a select small group of archies, then I believe it is incumbant on that archie to bring it - so to speak.  I think they should put something of their own work out there, and give the thinkers and tinkers a chance to debate, sift and winnow.  I believe that there wouldn't be as much bias as many who comment about bias on here would have the rest of us believe.  

The trick is getting topics and specifics where a variety of GCA.com posters have had some shared personal experience, particularly when discussing some individual archie and their work.

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2006, 01:03:17 AM »
If you define think liberally then yes. Say maybe we are a think treehouse.

ForkaB

Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2006, 02:14:05 AM »
If we were a think tank, we would have far more thought and far less chat. ;)

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2006, 07:24:23 AM »
Mike Young, I believe that you are a bit harsh in what you say...
Quote
I don't think  "think tank" would be the right word.  This site is very very selective of the golf architecture it discusses....it is not quite a la la land but it has no interest in delving into the actual golf architecture business as it applies to most of the industry.  It is informative when discussing the select group of projects it discusses but is not practical for most situations IMHO.

and

A lot of people on this site study architecture with a passion and are very educated on their particular segment but the realistic part of the business doesn't hold the interest that the idealistic does.

I believe that when any of you professional archies bring a practical discussion about the so-called realities of your business to the discussion, it gets a fair and comprehensive airing out.  I assume you are speaking of the realities of $$$ management, and construction techniques, and phazing projects, and so forth.  

 

But, I think if an archie that feels they are passed over in GCA.com discussions because the group think is bias towards a select small group of archies, then I believe it is incumbant on that archie to bring it - so to speak.  I think they should put something of their own work out there, and give the thinkers and tinkers a chance to debate, sift and winnow.  I believe that there wouldn't be as much bias as many who comment about bias on here would have the rest of us believe.  

The trick is getting topics and specifics where a variety of GCA.com posters have had some shared personal experience, particularly when discussing some individual archie and their work.



RJ,
Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh.  Was not intended.
Have never thought of being passed over.   As a matter of fact SE golf courses are rarely discussed anywhere because the climate and area does not lend itself to golf as much as some would think.
I certainly am not worried about the bias of the group (if there is any) toward another architect.  And I am not going to actively advertise my work on here for the thinkers ad tinkers to debate.  It is out there if they wish to see it.  
Don't take any of the above in the wrong manner.  It is an interesting discussion group.
Mike

"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would you call GCA a "think tank?"
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2006, 09:07:51 AM »
Part of the definition said "solve problems".  Does this group "solve" anything?  

If this website influenced a GCA in any form or fashion, then yes it's a think tank.