[Yannick Pilon]

What would be the best examples of minimalist design?

I would like to go see a few examples myself, but I just don't really know where to go....

Rustic Canyon and Talking Stick come to mind right now, but I would like to know about other courses that would fit this description.  Minimalist courses on flat sites are what I am really looking for.

Any ideas, guys?

[Jason Blasberg]

Not really an answer to your question but a great example of a minimal maximized design is Hanse's Tall Grass.  

It's maximized because it was completely shaped ontop of a dead flat sod farm but its minimal in many places in both the gentle grading of slopes and the way greens and tees are tied into what surrounds them.  

It's also bold in places too.  IMO its a great example of something completely sculpted that comes off very natural.    

[Yannick Pilon]

That's exactly the kind of stuff I am looking for.... Great answer.

Thanks.

[Tom_Doak]

The best minimalist course on a relatively flat site is Garden City Golf Club.

Another really good one is Rockport Country Club, Texas, Bill Coore's first solo design.

[Yannick Pilon]

Tom,

I got the same answer from Phil Binette when I met him this week!  I'll try to join Graham the next time he goes to play a tournament at Garden City.  It's been on my wish list for a long time....

Is the Coore course accessible for public play?  How about any of your courses?  Which one would best fit the description?

[ForkaB]

Brora

There may be a few bunkers dug out of the sandy soil, and the tees are square, slightly built up and level, but I can't think of a green or fairway that does not look like it was just mowed in its creation.

Compared to Brora, the Old Course is a shaper's dream!

Oh yeah, its a superb golf course, to boot.

[Philippe Binette]

Tom Doak

Is St Andrews Beach eligible for that award?

I could think so after playing the course before the building process had started.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Berkhamsted - bunkerless, pretty flat, lots of shortish par 4s - yet the Berkhamsted Trohy is one of the highlights of the amateur golf year.  Peter McEvoy, one of our most distinguished amateurs and now, himself, a course designer, says of it, 'I can assure you that it is very difficult.  I still cannot put my finger on why.'  I think it is a terrific golf course, but has anyone else experience of it?  What did you think?

[Tom_Doak]

Philippe:  St Andrews Beach is definitely minimalist, probably the most truly minimalist course that I've done, unless The Sheep Ranch counts.  (You would be proud of the work that Brian and Brian and Eric did there.)  But St Andrews Beach was a great piece of property, and there isn't a single hole that's as flat as Garden City.

Yannick:  Rockport was accommodating to visitors when it first opened, but I don't know of its status now that Bill is so famous!

[cary lichtenstein]

What's the best minimialist course in dead flat southern Florida?

[Gerry B]

chicago golf club is pretty flat - and all there in front of you

[Evan_Green]

Why not St. Andrews?

[JNC Lyon]

Since many of the bunkers have been removed at Oak Hill's West course since the day it opened, it now has 40-50 bunkers.  For me, it is pretty minimalist, with almost zero hazards in the driving area other than the contour of the land, but with several natural pulpit greens, along with wicked interior contouring in the greens, the course is very challenging.  In short, the course is made challenging because of the way the greens move with the land.

[Tom_Doak]

I do not think you can call St. Andrews "flat" by any stretch of the imagination, and I assumed that Yannick was looking for examples he could adapt to a flattish piece of ground.

[ChipOat]

Tom D (or others):

I'm not sure I know what "minimalist" courses look like, but I am familiar with Garden City Golf Club.

Why is GCGC a bonafide minimalist course?

[Jeff_Mingay]

Wolf Creek in Ponoka, Alberta - Rod Whitman's first solo design.

For more than 20 years now, Rod's received consistent praise for "the way he utilized an excellent piece of ground" there, at Wolf Creek. Rod being Rod, he modestly accepts it, knowing that every square inch of that property was manipulated... 'cause it really wasn't as good as it is now for golf in the beginning!

[Tom_Doak]

Chip:  My definition of a minimalist course is having little to no earthmoving in the fairways.  At Garden City, there are only a handful of greens that are built up above fairway level, so it's ultra-minimalist in my book, no matter how many pot bunkers Travis dug.

Of course lots of older courses would be minimalist by that definition, and nearly all the overseas links.  And that's where I got the idea from.  It is anything but a new invention ... it's just that nowadays you find a lot less architects who will abstain.

[Bill_McBride]

Chicago Golf Club was a relatively flat site until Raynor fired up the earthmoving equipment!

There is one apparently natural hill that is the site for the 8th green, 9th tee, 12th (Punchbowl!) and 13th tee.  

[Gerry B]

Bill:

yes there are a couple of minor elevation changes at Chicago GC - but overall it is very flat imho

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:  I would give you "gently rolling" for Chicago Golf Club, but not "flat".  The majority of holes have some movement to them:

1st is sidehill, to green on higher ground in the corner.
2nd is a downhill tee shot, at least 15-20 feet
5th and 6th play over the same valley
8th is downhill once you're over the hazard at 200 yards off the tee
9th has downhill tee shot
11th has sidehill/uphill second shot
12th is rolling from tee to green
13th plays from one hill to another
14th has downhill tee shot
17th is uphill all the way

[David Sneddon]

Berkhamsted - bunkerless, pretty flat, lots of shortish par 4s - yet the Berkhamsted Trohy is one of the highlights of the amateur golf year.  Peter McEvoy, one of our most distinguished amateurs and now, himself, a course designer, says of it, 'I can assure you that it is very difficult.  I still cannot put my finger on why.'  I think it is a terrific golf course, but has anyone else experience of it?  What did you think?

I've played it several times, and agree, it is a very difficult course.  From my experience, Berhamstead demands that you place your tee shot in one position on the fairway to have any chance of a decent approach.
The rough is barely playable if you end up in a section that has that heather-like plant growing through it, leaving you with a pitch-out if you are lucky.
It is a course that rewards patience and placement.

[Mark Brown]

Prairie Dunes?

[ForkaB]

Rich

If Brora qualifies as flat then there are loads of flat, minimalist designs in the the UK and Ireland.  

Ciao

Sean

Sean

Good pickup on the word "flat."  I don't do adjectives these days.

Therefore, as to Brora, never mind!

But, how abpout them holes near the clubhouse at Hoylake?  Flat as a crepe and very interesting........

[Yannick Pilon]

Yes Tom, you're right.  I'm mostly interested in examples I could adapt to a flat piece of land.  Although, the general question would be more interesting....  I am open to all suggestions!

By the way, in your mind, is minimalism only expressed by the amount of earthmoving done?

In my mind I feel it is more than that (even if I do have a tough time finding lots of other examples).  It is also an ideal that can be expressed in many other aspects of the design, like drainage (the max. amount of surface drainage vs. min amount of sub-surface,  only irrigate the necessary areas, minimize if not eliminate paths if possible, reduce number of bunkers to the minimum with maximum strategy, etc...)  All in the name of saving costs in the overall budget, and pass that on to the players as low green fee prices.)

It is also a state of mind that should ideally drive the management of the golf course, almost to a point where we should try to educate the golfers on the virtues of more traditionnal golf courses vs. the plush americanised version of the game we all know today, often geared towards the richer and the corporate world.

I fell off my chair when I saw I could play Rustic Canyon for 35$ on weekdays!  Isn't this the way it should be most of the time?

What do you guys think?

By the way, keep the good suggestions coming!

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

I'm not sure if I totally agree with Tom's definition of minimalism as ""having little to no earthmoving in the fairways".
I don't disagree with it either, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, so I'd be interested in others opinions.

In my view, minimalism is an idea where the goal is to make a golf course LOOK as thought there was little or no earthmoving.  However, in the process of doing so, it may be necessary to move signficant quantities of material, perhaps even more than usual.

A simplistic example of this would be a tee complex.  A "standard" tee would have raised tee decks, with typically 4:1 side slopes.  A "pure minimalistic" course would have very low-profile tee, at or near existing grade.  However, for a "faux minimalist" course (if I can call it that), one can move A LOT of material to get the raised-tee-deck effect, while making them look as if they were simply built on a existing hill/ridge/slope.

Often one get caught in the "rule" that to make a course look natural, you have to move as little earth as possible.   Rather, one should never shy away from moving earth to achieve a desired effect.  Indeed, quite often features don't look natural because not enough earth was moved.

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