[ForkaB]

Do we hear the genesis of 'Isthmus of Moriarity'?  I assume its related to GCA's Moriarity and not Sherlock Holmes' nemesis?

I played with the evil Dave M. Esq. in his and my first bite at the Cypress cherry.  The "Isthmus of Moriarty" is that spit of land bounded by the Chasm of Shivas, the tragic Cove of Duran, and Rihc's Elysian Field (otherwise known as the "green.").

Always glad to be of help....

[Tom Huckaby]

Rich - not the creator of the term although I'd bet anything he'll take credit for it - gives some very useful additions to the geographical names there.  

Of course to put this in proper context it ought to he Huckaby's Elysian Field, given that the day of the round in question in which the incident giving rise to the Isthmus of Moriarty occurred, said stalwart ME did indeed find the green... which really was a big part of why the name was created.  That is, short-knocking me made it, Big Bad Dave M. figured there was no way.  And Rich was not present.

 

Come to think of it more though, the green ought to be named Huntley's Heaven given he's hit the green more than all of us here combined plus add in Rich's advanced number of years on this planet.

 

[Marty Bonnar]

I may have been riding on the coat-tails of Messrs. Benham and Dodd (and maybe even La Nancy!) for 15 Holes, but it was Bonnar's Honour at 17 after this one...


A very, VERY jolly FBD after the Tee Shot...



...which got him here. (just off the left - that's Benham or Dodd's pitiful third or fourth shot on the green - in fact, there goes Benham crying into the Ice Plant!!! )



Swing Easy!!!

FBD.

PS Ian, sorry for the threadjack!

[redanman]

Fellas, thanks for leaving this one for me

I'd replace #4 at Baltusrol with #4 at NGLA. If I have to defend this we are way off base here somewhere.....



also:
#10 Fisher's Island for #10 MV (woof-woof because it's a mutt on a housing tract), Fisher's has to be on there and you can't put the best (# 4, 5, or 12, 13 or 14.)  






Ian, I'm impressed if you did indeed remember the list off the top of your noggin' my friend!

[Tom Huckaby]

Bill - I'd go with ya on that one.

Interesting how perceptions were in 1976 - did many outside Southampton even KNOW about NGLA then?

And Martin, love the pics and well done.  

[Andy Hughes]

Tom, thanks for the 17th hole comments. That's very helpful, though it would have been even better if Mr Benham would post a shot of 17 that actually showed, you know, 17.

Rich, who knew? Thanks for the geography.  Odd I never saw any mentions in TMacKenzie's book.

Martin--what, you couldn't even hit the green??  Looks like an awfully big target for a par 3..how can you miss?  

[Stan Dodd]

Thanks Martin Ouch

[Andy Hughes]

Oh yeah, I'd also replace #13 with the one at Tobacco Road.  Strantz needs to be there somewhere, and I love that greensite.  Number 1 at Tobacco Road I like way more than 13, but I haven't played St George's, so can't say it should be replaced.  

[Keith Durrant]

No.1 is Royal St Georges.

The 7th at Teeth of the Dog is not an all-world hole. The 5th at TOG is better.

[Ian Andrew]

My "suggested" edits for discussion - sticking to my own rules I did not change a hole I had not played.

1. Crystal Downs long four
-Inviting driving hole
-great second shot
-spectacular view of what's to come
-big drop to watch the ball fly
-fantastic bunkering in variety and shape

2. Scioto long four
-great driving hole with the landform dictating play
-tough uphill approach is very exacting
-the green finishes you off with the flase front.

3. Durban Country Club short five
-not played it

4. Seminole long four
-an exacting drive to the crowned fairway
-spectacular view over the property
-tough second shot to a slightly crowned green
-can be played safely too

5. Mid Ocean - long four
-not played it

6. Royal Melbourne - long four
-sadly not played it

7. Teeth of the Dog - mid length three
-not played it

8. Troon short three
-best short hole in golf
-looks easy, but is devilishly difficult
-a good example of the importance of width in a green
-tight bunkering and cross-wind is a perfect combination to instill fear

9. Royal County Down long four
-blind shot over the massive dune is exciting
-possibly the best view in golf
-hole is beautifully framed by the dunes, the town and the Mountains of Mourne
-a great long exacting approach into a tricky green with those wolly edged bunkers

10. Riviera short four
-best "completely designed" hole in golf
-a hole full of options is almost always a great hole
-the right way is obvious - but the wrong way is the usual choice - sign of greatness in a shot four
- the approach is tough because of a brilliant green
-the slope of the green and the size makes the hole

11. The Country Club
-not played

12. Augusta National short three
-not played

13. Pine Valley long four
-long par four full of options from the tee and on the approach
-player can fly at the green on the approach or bounce it in
-fantastic use of terrain
-spectacular view on second shot
-that wonderful bunkering

14. Royal Dornoch long four
-best green site in golf
-the dunes along the fairway add to the challenge and beauty of the hole
-a hole with a no real answer on how to atttack it
-green invites any approach, and repels them all equally
-great green

15. Oakmont very long four
-not played

16. Cypress Point long three
-most thrilling single shot in golf
-hole asks for your best, but gives optional route
-the best view in golf periods.
-the ultimate heroic hole, and like Riviera's 10th, you play the toughest route because the hole draws you into giving it a go.

17. National Golf Links of America mid length four
-great view of Peconic sound and clubhouse
-up high into the breezes
-the perfect balance of risk and reward
-the dune in front offers the timid a blind approach, and the brave a peak at the green

18. Pebble Beach long par five
-great gambling drive
-now a gambling second in the modern game
-beautiful setting
-bunkering at green places premium on gambling with your approach
-best view backwards that I know !

Par 70, mix of long and short holes. Balanced nines like the original list.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:  I like your list better than that chap Ward-Thomas'.

Ten years ago I helped a TV producer do a video on the best 18 holes in the world.  I didn't pick the holes entirely myself ... we had a small committee, but I broke the ties in the interest of making it a "course" with a lot of variety instead of just the best 1st hole, etc.  Here's what we came up with then:

1st Machrihanish, 430 yards
2nd Pine Valley, 367 yards
3rd Durban CC, 505 yards
4th National GL of America, 196 yards
5th Royal Portrush (Dunluce), 385 yards
6th Royal Melbourne (West), 428 yards
7th San Francisco GC, 183 yards
8th Pebble Beach, 425 yards
9th Muirfield, 531 yards

10th Riviera, 310 yards
11th Ballybunion (Old), 443 yards
12th Woodhall Spa, 155 yards
13th Augusta National, 485 yards
14th Royal Dornoch, 458 yards
15th Hirono, 565 yards
16th Cypress Point, 219 yards
17th St. Andrews (Old Course), 461 yards
18th Royal Lytham & St. Annes, 386 yards

I could come up with another completely different list that was probably just as good, using a lot of the same courses -- using the 11th at St. Andrews, 18th at Pebble Beach, etc.  My own personal list would definitely include the 8th at Crystal Downs, despite the strength of other candidates.

[Ian Andrew]

There are holes I liked better but the hole number creates a choice, and the idea of two par threes per side forces other decisions.

4th NLGA, 4th at Banff the lest goes on....
8th at Crystal Downs, 8th at NLGA.........

I had not played TCC or I would have picked....
11th at LACC
11th at St. Andrews

[JNC Lyon]

For anyone who's played it, I bet 11 on the members' course is better than 11 on the championship course at the Country Club.  I didn't play 11 at TCC, but I saw it, and I would pick maybe four or five holes from the members' course ahead of it (3, 4, 5, 9, 11, 18).

[SPDB]

JNC - I suspect that the 11th hole at TCC is the 11th hole on the Clyde/Squirrel 18, and not the Composite 11 (which is a combination of the 1st and 2d on the Primrose). It would be hard to imagine that they would select what may be the weakest hole on the composite course. (I only see it as a necessary link to get to Flynn's sublime and terrifying 12th on the composite course (8th on Primrose)).

[Ian Andrew]

SPBD

The illustration shows what looks like two holes combined. The approach is ove a large pond if that helps.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

How about a list of 18 holes, each with a different architect, and amongst that architect's finest individual holes?  As with World Atlas the holes have to retain their number. We need a balanced course with say, four par 3s and four par 5s, a good mix of long and short examples of par 3s, 4s and 5s, with the long and short holes spaced nicely through the round, and you could make it even harder by ensuring it is a good match-play course (for example, not all the short holes on even numbers).  

[Ian Andrew]

Mark,

I will take on your challenge, but that will need time.

The first question is what 18-20 architects.
What is there best three or four holes.
Can you get the pars and holes all come together with this.
Wow, it seems harder the more I think about it!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Ian, the hardest bit will be when you have to leave out a favourite hole because you don't want back-to-back par 3s or something of that sort.

[SPDB]

Ian - Then I stand corrected, that is the 11th hole from the composite course, a very bland hole with nothing to recommend it. In its place I would put either.

In its place I would put Merion #11, or #11 TCC (Clyde/Squirrel), if Par 5 is permissible.

[Jerry Kluger]

I agree 100% with #4 at NGLA.

I only played Shinnecock once so my recollection is not that great but I have to believe that there is one hole there that belongs in this group.  

[Mike Benham]

... but it was Bonnar's Honour at 17 after this one...

I have video of the aforementioned swing if anyone is interested ... rated G ...

[Tom_Doak]

The list we did didn't really contemplate restricting to one hole per architect, but only MacKenzie and Old Tom Morris and maybe Tom Simpson (Muirfield and Ballybunion) have more than one.  If we assigned the 16th at Cypress Point to Marion Hollins and the sixth at Royal Melbourne to Alex Russell, MacKenzie would be down to one.

I don't really know who should get credit for the 14th at Royal Dornoch.  What say you, Rich?  If it's Tom Morris, then throw out his first at Machrihanish for the first at Sand Hills.

Then you only need a new par-4 ninth hole, and I've got a list you would find tough to match.

[Gene Greco]

I don't really know who should get credit for the 14th at Royal Dornoch.  What say you, Rich?  If it's Tom Morris, then throw out his first at Machrihanish for the first at Sand Hills.

Then you only need a new par-4 ninth hole, and I've got a list you would find tough to match.

Tom:

    The 9th at The Maidstone


Is the 14th at Dornoch better than the 14th at Shinnecock?

[Bill_McBride]

Mike Benham:

#14 Perfection at North Berwick!

#16 CPC

#17 TOC

You obviously have to be a big North Berwick fan to make this leap!

[Sean_A]

Bill

There aren't many bigger fans of North Berwick out there than me, but I will look before I leap!

Ciao

Sean

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()