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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2006, 10:53:02 PM »
you go Jordan!

lots of details not to go into here, bu how I wish that I would have been able to golf IN HAWAII WITH MY DAD with the wind blowing under my shirt!
 
and, horror of horrors ;), I might have even worn my baseball style golf cap backwards!...I frankly do not understand why doing that makes some people freak out.....it's a rule at my club and I abide by it, as I do whenever it's appropriate, but doing so does not mean I am the anti Christ on anything like that

the added kicker:  I'm sure some of these people who don't like those caps being worn backwards weare really stupid looking clothes...but that's ok, right!?!??
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2006, 10:58:16 PM »
OK guys, what's the new age limit on etiquette.  

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2006, 11:11:37 PM »
I thought you were joking around with your original post, but it sounds like you are serious.

Who was his host at Kapalua? I think if someone invites you to their course, you should always be sure to err on the side of caution. But you pay your green fees at some public course, be comfortable.

Me, I wear Hawaiian shirts most every day of my life. I think they look extremely uptight when tucked in. I also rarely wear golf shoes or slacks. But recenty going to MPCC as a guest of Mr. Huntley, I wore golf shoes, slacks, a tucked in golf shirt and a washed and groomed by hair and beard. Apparently, I ended up looking like a well groomed terrorist because I was told the membership still wanted to call Homeland Security. (But then I'm almost positive I would never be confused with a leading critic of the game.)

Dan King
Quote
Dharma Bums refusing to subscribe to the general demand that they consume production and therefore have to work for the privilege of consuming, all that crap they didn't really want anyway such as refrigerators, TV sets, cars,…and general junk you finally always see a week later in the garbage anyway, all of them imprisoned in a system of work, produce, consume, work, produce, consume, I see a vision of a great rucksack revolution thousands or even millions of young Americans wandering around with rucksacks, going up to mountains to pray, making children laugh and old men glad, making young girls happy and old girls happier, all of 'em Zen Lunatics who go about writing poems that happen to appear in their heads for no reason and also by being kind and also by strange unexpected acts keep giving visions of eternal freedom to everybody and to all living creatures.  
 --Jack Kerouac

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2006, 11:12:16 PM »
John, John, John, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!!!!!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2006, 11:29:46 PM »
I thought you were joking around with your original post, but it sounds like you are serious.

Who was his host at Kapalua? I think if someone invites you to their course, you should always be sure to err on the side of caution. But you pay your green fees at some public course, be comfortable.

Me, I wear Hawaiian shirts most every day of my life. I think they look extremely uptight when tucked in. I also rarely wear golf shoes or slacks. But recenty going to MPCC as a guest of Mr. Huntley, I wore golf shoes, slacks, a tucked in golf shirt and a washed and groomed by hair and beard. Apparently, I ended up looking like a well groomed terrorist because I was told the membership still wanted to call Homeland Security. (But then I'm almost positive I would never be confused with a leading critic of the game.)

Dan King
Quote
Dharma Bums refusing to subscribe to the general demand that they consume production and therefore have to work for the privilege of consuming, all that crap they didn't really want anyway such as refrigerators, TV sets, cars,…and general junk you finally always see a week later in the garbage anyway, all of them imprisoned in a system of work, produce, consume, work, produce, consume, I see a vision of a great rucksack revolution thousands or even millions of young Americans wandering around with rucksacks, going up to mountains to pray, making children laugh and old men glad, making young girls happy and old girls happier, all of 'em Zen Lunatics who go about writing poems that happen to appear in their heads for no reason and also by being kind and also by strange unexpected acts keep giving visions of eternal freedom to everybody and to all living creatures.  
 --Jack Kerouac


Dan,

I'd call your regular attire a uniform..I've always admired a man in uniform.  On one hand you refuse to work somewhere with a drug testing policy even though you don't use drugs but you conform to someone elses idea of what is ordinary to simply play a golf course.  It really is more than simply playing a golf course, isn't it.

Jordan Wall

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2006, 11:40:50 PM »
OK guys, what's the new age limit on etiquette.  

Good question John.  I did not get invited to play this course, I made the tee time myself so nobody cared what I wore...One guy wore khaki pants with a button up shirt, another guy wore khaki shorts with a polo (untucked BTW), the kid wore denim shorts and a t-shirt, and the wife wore jeans and a shirt.  BTW, the guy with khakis is a member at Sherwood Country Club and he didnt have a problem with how anybody dressed, and before we teed off he said he really liked what I was wearing.  And ya know what, my dad, me, and the other two guys all took a mulligan.  I almost never do that but it was Kapalua on a beautiful par-3 (#11) and everyone hit a crappy shot (though mine was on the fringe)...so we all reloaded for fun.  Maybe you should learn how to have fun, John.

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2006, 11:51:40 PM »
John Kavanaugh writes:
I'd call your regular attire a uniform..I've always admired a man in uniform. 

No, anything but a uniform. Perhaps I can finally contact my old den mother and get the Tiger badge in Cub Scouts. I never made it because I always failed to wear the proper uniform.

On one hand you refuse to work somewhere with a drug testing policy even though you don't use drugs

I'd be shocked if I ever said I don't use drugs. I've always been a big fan of drugs, both  therapeutic and recreational. Perhaps I was high when I said it. What I think I might have said is that I refuse to take drug tests despite the fact that generally I could pass them.

but you conform to someone elses idea of what is ordinary to simply play a golf course.  It really is more than simply playing a golf course, isn't it.

Of course. I don't do it for the golf course, I do it out of respect for Mr. Huntley. I don't see anyone I'm disrespecting if I show up at Kapalua in shorts, sandals and a Hawaiian shirt and pay their far to expensive green fees.

Dan King
Quote
I remember that one fateful day when Coach took me aside. I knew what was coming. "You don't have to tell me," I said. "I'm off the team, aren't I?" "Well," said Coach, "you never were really ON the team. You made that uniform you're wearing out of rags and towels, and your helmet is a toy space helmet. You show up at practice and then either steal the ball and make us chase you to get it back, or you try to tackle people at inappropriate times." It was all true what he was saying. And yet, I thought something is brewing inside the head of this Coach. He sees something in me, some kind of raw talent that he can mold. But that's when I felt the handcuffs go on.
 --Jack Handy

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2006, 12:17:49 AM »
OK guys, what's the new age limit on etiquette.  


BTW, the guy with khakis is a member at Sherwood Country Club and he didnt have a problem with how anybody dressed, and before we teed off he said he really liked what I was wearing.  


Jordan,

I just have to know what this guy said to you...I'm sorry for anything I have done to offend you, but I have studied your outfit to great lengths and I while I find it tastful I can't for the life of me figure out what about it is compliment inspiring..You are telling me that just out of the blue this guy told you how good you look...I think knowing why might help me learn how to enjoy life better.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2006, 12:48:04 AM »
It's time to put this thread and me to bed so here goes..

I was wrong, the people on this board owe nothing to the game, wear what you want, act however you want and do everything you can get away with...just take, take, take and lie and cheat if it saves you a buck on greenfees..hell, hold em hostage if you get the power.  Just be happy and I'll be happy right along with ya..

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2006, 04:42:47 AM »
Again these issues of directing other's lives crops up.  If I ever own a pub I will name it the LIVE AND LET LIVE.  Of course credit will not be offered.  My motto is "cash is king".

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2006, 06:57:45 AM »
John,

There is only one barrier to entry on this site and that is Ran. He allows us to play on his private course here, and you are being openly disrespectful of one of Ran's guest. Jordan, Dylan Sweeney and Christian Greco are the future of the game and a private message is appropriate if you are genuine in your questions. I had a similar exchange with Jordan on a totally unrelated topic. I will admit that I enjoy the occasional rater bashing by JakaB on 50 year old raters, but this is not funny, IMHO.

Jordan,

Welcome to the GCA party. You are welcome to come to my son's The Creek and Yale outing next summer on August 20 and 21 as my guest. Here are pics from last year:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19684;start=msg350618#msg350618

PS. The Yale super Scott Ramsey post here occasionally, and hopefully it will be a little brown next summer.  ;)

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2006, 08:10:57 AM »

I've never had a well-behaved 10 year old

Jordan you're doing fine by me.  Yesterday I was mildly critical of Tiger's dress sense on here, to me he's got responsibilities.  Last summer I played in France at a couple of really old clubs and didn't know what to expect.  First thing I discovered, I'd forgotten my Golf shoes and played in a pair of shoes similar to your Dad's (but with the toes covered) and FJ pop socks.  Nobody gave me a scond look -That was Class.  It was hot (35 degrees celcius) and  for the first time ever I played with my shirt outside my trousers because that's what everyone else was doing (and they take their fashion very seriously in those parts).  And I discovered it was much more comfortable in that heat.

Also (you can guess what I'm working on) but I was knocked out to see the contrast between your still lower body and that full sholder turn.  Gives great consistency (or so I'm told).

I'm pleased you enjoy this site.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2006, 09:14:35 AM »
John Kavanaugh writes:
I was wrong, the people on this board owe nothing to the game, wear what you want, act however you want and do everything you can get away with...just take, take, take and lie and cheat if it saves you a buck on greenfees..hell, hold em hostage if you get the power.  Just be happy and I'll be happy right along with ya.

The problem is that you have decided what is appropriate on a golf course based on your own personal tastes. Excuse some of us for not sharing your tastes. If Harry Vardon were to come back and see you out playing golf without the customary tie and jacket, he would say how inappropriate you are being.

Me, unless someone is paying you to wear their logo attire, I think logo attire is goofy. But I'd never go to the extreme of calling other golfers obnoxious for wearing logo attire. I know it is a matter of taste, many golfers like logo attire. I manage to figure out how to have a good time despite playing partners wearing logo attire. If we all had exactly the same taste it would cripple the wallpaper industry.

I don't like tucking in my shirt. To my eyes, it looks overly starched. If I come play at your private club I will find a shirt that hopefully looks okay tucked in and wear it that way. But if you and I go out and play a round at a public course, unless I show up in tie, jacket and knickers, you can count on me wearing an untucked Hawaiian shirt. If that means you'd rather not ever play golf with me, I'll have to figure out some way to live with your decision.

Dan King
Quote
The internet is a reflection of our society and that mirror is going to be reflecting what we see. If we do not like what we see in that mirror the problem is not to fix the mirror, we have to fix society.
 --Vint Cerf

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2006, 09:42:26 AM »
I have already admitted I was wrong and now I will apologize.  I am sorry Jordan, I am out of line thinking children should be held to the same standards as adults.  Kapalua states on their web site that "Proper golf attire is required" and you clearly met that standard.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2006, 09:47:32 AM »
John,

There is only one barrier to entry on this site and that is Ran. He allows us to play on his private course here, and you are being openly disrespectful of one of Ran's guest. Jordan, Dylan Sweeney and Christian Greco are the future of the game and a private message is appropriate if you are genuine in your questions. I had a similar exchange with Jordan on a totally unrelated topic. I will admit that I enjoy the occasional rater bashing by JakaB on 50 year old raters, but this is not funny, IMHO.

Jordan,

Welcome to the GCA party. You are welcome to come to my son's The Creek and Yale outing next summer on August 20 and 21 as my guest. Here are pics from last year:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19684;start=msg350618#msg350618

PS. The Yale super Scott Ramsey post here occasionally, and hopefully it will be a little brown next summer.  ;)

Mike,

Please tell me where I was disrespectful to either yours or Gene's son.  I didn't say it was rude to play with your child I said it was rude to bring them along while you babysit.  I don't even think I was disrespectful of Jordan in using him as an example of someone looking sloppy on the golf course.  I think at 16 he is an adult on the golf course by every standard except entry onto the LPGA...that was my mistake.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2006, 09:50:39 AM »
John Kavanaugh writes:
I was wrong, the people on this board owe nothing to the game, wear what you want, act however you want and do everything you can get away with...just take, take, take and lie and cheat if it saves you a buck on greenfees..hell, hold em hostage if you get the power.  Just be happy and I'll be happy right along with ya.

The problem is that you have decided what is appropriate on a golf course based on your own personal tastes. Excuse some of us for not sharing your tastes. If Harry Vardon were to come back and see you out playing golf without the customary tie and jacket, he would say how inappropriate you are being.

Me, unless someone is paying you to wear their logo attire, I think logo attire is goofy. But I'd never go to the extreme of calling other golfers obnoxious for wearing logo attire. I know it is a matter of taste, many golfers like logo attire. I manage to figure out how to have a good time despite playing partners wearing logo attire. If we all had exactly the same taste it would cripple the wallpaper industry.

I don't like tucking in my shirt. To my eyes, it looks overly starched. If I come play at your private club I will find a shirt that hopefully looks okay tucked in and wear it that way. But if you and I go out and play a round at a public course, unless I show up in tie, jacket and knickers, you can count on me wearing an untucked Hawaiian shirt. If that means you'd rather not ever play golf with me, I'll have to figure out some way to live with your decision.

Dan King
Quote
The internet is a reflection of our society and that mirror is going to be reflecting what we see. If we do not like what we see in that mirror the problem is not to fix the mirror, we have to fix society.
 --Vint Cerf


Dan,

At Norwood Hills the membership guide specifically says that players will have their shirt tucked in...If you meet me in St. Louis we will play somewhere else...It is just a rule I agreed to when I joined, that's all.  I have to admit I joined without ever reading the book, I guess I'm stuck.

Dave Bourgeois

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2006, 10:37:06 AM »
Wow.. what a first week on this site.  I'm still trying to figure out what Jordan's shirt has to do with the new greens, or overall design of Kapalua. ;)  

Jordan Wall

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2006, 10:55:08 AM »
I have already admitted I was wrong and now I will apologize.  I am sorry Jordan, I am out of line thinking children should be held to the same standards as adults.  Kapalua states on their web site that "Proper golf attire is required" and you clearly met that standard.

Your right this time John, I was wearing proper attire.  Nowhere on the site does it say to tuck in your shirt.  And what that guy told me, when we met on the first tee (actually tenth) he was like, man you stand out.  Your shorts are awesome dude!!  And also, for everybody here, including John, I am sorry that I might have not represented this site well, and for some of the comments I made last night when I was upset.  They were uncalled for, and why I am still a little upset, never say anything bad about my parents.  Me??  Fine, I dont care, but it goes to far when you talk about my dad.  I think you should learn some limits, John, because last night I was really upset.  As for now, I'll  give you a clean slate ;)

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2006, 11:15:50 AM »
John:

Stop it, you're beatiing up a senitive kid. Act your age and pick on someone else. Take on Dave Moriarity. Him you can and should beat the c**p out of ;D

Jordan:

Don't answer him, you're just asking to be bashed.

Cary
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 11:16:58 AM by cary lichtenstein »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2006, 11:54:34 AM »
A couple of (purely non-confrontational) thoughts:

*If there's a more mellow place in America than Maui, I have not yet found it. The idea of anyone at Kapalua getting worked up over a sixteen year old's untucked shirt, in this context, is crazy. Let's not forget the unofficial Hawaiian motto is "Hang Loose"  ;).

*Jordan's dad's bucket hat, in a place like Maui, is more a piece of survival gear than a fashion choice. I was there last month and was extra-crispy after three days of hiking and snorkeling. Thus charred, my rounds on the Plantation course transpired while wearing a similar bucket hat, purchased on the spot. My wife forced me to buy it, then made fun of me for wearing it (if that isn't married like in a nutshell, I dunno what is  ;D) Anyway, Mr. Kavanaugh, if your skin is anything like mine (and your Irish surname suggests it might be  :)), I'd recommend investing in one of these puppies.

*When I was a teenager, most photos of me in my golf attire are very Jordan-like. I caddied at and was at times fortunate enough to play a number of private clubs where the standards John K. is talking about would certainly be in full effect. I remember plenty of occasions where adults would school me on a point of etiquette, and I took that all to heart. But I'm glad no one ever jumped down my throat for not tucking my shirt in--I got enough of that at school. And eventually I learned on my own that this is the proper look.

*The problem with a lot of golf shirts is that long back placket. They don't look good when untucked.  However, I've discovered that certain styles from Nike (TW Collection) and Fairway and Greene are uniform length around the bottom of the shirt. They look a lot better in untuck-mode.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 11:56:05 AM by Tom Dunne »

Billsteele

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2006, 12:10:48 PM »
Jordan-While it is quite a trek from Seattle, I would encourage you try to make the Yale and Creek outing in August. It is a great way to experience two fantastic classic courses and also to actually meet some of the inhabitants of this site. Your attendance would also help Mike Sweeney fill up his twelve foursomes on the tee sheet at Yale.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2006, 12:22:12 PM »
Just to make sure this thread makes it to 25 pages.....

How can anyone critsize a sandal they have never worn?

Is it similar to architectural analysis or criticism through WOM (Word of Mouth) or photographs, when the opiner has never set foot on property?

Are dress codes similar to, the false by definition, "corporate image"?

Would you rather have a person dress like a gentleman, or be a gentleman?

Just cause a guy shows up at the first tee with a six pack, wearing a wife beater tee shirt , and sandals, doesn't mean he will try to screw you out of your schillings.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 07:52:20 PM by Adam Clayman »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2006, 01:03:25 PM »

Would you rather have a person dress like a gentleman, or be a gentleman?

Before posing the question you should have looked up the definitions of a "gentleman".  

Yours is the argument of the extremes, predisposing the viewer to the choice of the lesser of two evils.

A "gentleman" "is a man whose conduct conforms to a high standard of propriety or correct behavior."
And that includes dressing properly.
[/color]

Just cause a guy shows up at the first tee with a six pack, dago T, and sandals doesn't mean he will try to screw you out of your schillings.

It doesn't mean he won't, either.
Given the choice, I'd prefer to tell him that we already have a threesome.

I don't know about you, but, I'd rather not sit down for a meal next to a guy who's just finished his workout at the gym and is dressed in his jock strap and the tee shirt Adam refers to, irrespective of his footwear.

When in Rome. ......
[/color]

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2006, 01:13:09 PM »

I am with Pat Mucci on this.  I also am not sure if Mr. Clayman would know how a gentleman acts when he uses a term like "dago".  

Jordan Wall

Re:Our responsibilities as leading critics of the game..
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2006, 02:26:48 PM »
Adam, Adam, Adam...

...let me get this straight, OK...NEVER CRITICIZE A SANDAL YOU HAVE NEVER WORN, GOT IT ;) ;) ;)

Those are actually golfing sandals my dad picked up at Pro Golf Discount.

AND, how many of you guys liked my outfit (forget the bit about it non being tucked in)...dropped me 70$ a day before I left for Hawaii...