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Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« on: January 06, 2006, 07:48:13 PM »
If we're ever going to get the industry to move to the theory of golden brown, frim and fast, and less is more, somebody is gonning to have to help them sell it to the masses that pay the bills.  So, here's your big chance to deal with a very important and very real industry situation.  No ideas to big or small.  The revolution has to start somewhere!

What's your best pitch for the brown is beautiful campaign???

Cheers!

JT
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 09:41:42 PM by Jim Thompson »
Jim Thompson

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Selling Brown
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 08:17:03 PM »
Via Donnie Beck


PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 08:54:53 PM »
the "problem" is Mike, that a lot of people do not think that brown grass is beautiful...I also think a lot of them equate brown grass with unhealthy turf

cost savings often gets people to buy in...i.e., if it would save a course a decent amount of money to water less...however, I think you'd have to educate your customers re the first paragraph

of course, less water=firmer fairways which can = longer drives, which most people like!

if the course uses drinking water and if it's in an area where the supply is becoming an issue, raising this point might help

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

TEPaul

Re:Selling Brown
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 09:17:38 PM »
Jim:

The revolution already has started and it looks like it's beginning to get organized as more and more clubs are dedicatedly getting into wanting firm and fast playing conditions and in some cases really firm and fast playing conditions. The point is clubs are beginning to communicate with others as to the best and most effective ways to do it.

The way to not go about it, in my opinion, is to label it something like "selling Brown" or "Brown is Beautiful" or anything that has "brown" in it.

We all have to realize what the few clubs like Fishers, Maidstone and Newport (the only three really basically famous courses in America that maintain ultra brown "through the green" do it because they are the only three famous courses that do not have irrigation systems "through the green".

Those three clubs are weathy and super upscale and if they wanted irrigation systems "through the green" they would've had them decades ago. They don't want them and they never did and clubs like that are truly rare. Their memberships are sophisticated too. The last thing any of those clubs has ever wanted to do is follow the latest fad, agronomically or otherwise in golf. Anyone can just look at most everything about the clubs of those three and tell that.

The point I'm trying to make here is golf courses can acheive really firm and fast conditions without going to ultra brown like the photo of Fishers above. Not that I don't think the look of Fishers isn't cool because I think it's wonderful but that look will never be sold to a large number of clubs in this country, not ever.

It doesn't have to be either to acheive really firm and fast playing conditions. If a course who really wants firm and fast playing conditons (50+ yards of rollout "through the green") is willing to truly commit to the app 3-5+ year program it takes to transition their grass they can have really firm and fast conditions without browning out that much and certainly nothing like the look in that photo of Fishers.

What it ends up looking like is a course that's a light green and sometimes it has something of a sheen to it. I call that firm and fast playing condition "the light green sheen" and I can just look at a course like that and tell how firm and fast it is without even hitting a shot on it.

I didn't understand this until recently but a course that looks like Fishers above with those ultra brown fairways has grass that's been like that for decades and decades. It's ultra tough, and it can stay in an ultra brown state of "dormancy" (totally browned out) like that for probably weeks and weeks on end if it has to.

If any club who has grass that depends on regular irrigation and has for years (like almost all courses in America today) is taken to the ultra brown look of that photo of Fishers the grass would be dead as a smelt and the whole course would have to be replanted/reseeded. Grass dependent on regular irrigation apparently doesn't have much of a period of real  "dormancy" (ultra brown), if any at all, like in that photo.

But with Fishers or Maidstone or Newport their grass "through the green" could look like that for probably weeks and weeks on end and when it rains in about a day or two it would be green again. No so with every other courses if taken to that ultra brown look.

Very, very few golf courses in this country have grass that can do that and the point is it doesn't really have to. Firm and fast is what it's all about, not necessarily brown. Courses that commit to dedicated a 3-5+ year transition period can be really firm and fast with a color that may have some brown tinging to it and some "moddlling" of color but basically it will be a "light green" not really brown and not the ultra browning of that photo of Fishers.

So if we want to start a revolution to really firm and fast playing conditions I say it can be done if we keep the word "brown" out of it. If you're trying to sell really firm and fast playing conditions to clubs tell them that after a truly committed transition period they can have really firm and fast playing conditions and a course that's color is a "light green sheen." The bad news is during that "transition period" (3-5) years the browning out will probably be worse than when it will be when you reach your goal. What's happening is during that transition period you're killing off the weak grass so the tough grass will take its place. It's sort of a "Darwinian" thing--eg the survival of the fittest. Scott Anderson of HVGC calls it "hardening off" your grass---particularly poa---unbelievably.

By the way, a golf course that has ultra brown conditions like that photo of Fishers also has ultra, ultra firm and fast playing conditions. By that I mean rollout of up to maybe 100 yards. Just ask Donnie--he'll tell you.

If you have a club and membership that'll commit to that then God Love them all. Donnie will tell you that if you hit a drive on Fishers when it looks like that photo you don't just get about a hundred yards of roll-out, you also get a bounce about six feet in the air and a puff of dust when the ball hits the ground.

Now, how cool is that? You want to talk about a course that takes some real thought to play---that'd be it.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 09:30:36 PM by TEPaul »

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2006, 09:39:57 PM »
Tom,

With all due respect, and recognizing that everything you have said is 100% true, do you have an idea to actively promote this concept or not?  In the case you describe, I am left to assume your solution is to wait for enough private courses to go firm until the public demands it so that then public courses can go to fast and firm.  We'll all be dead by then if that's the plan.  As for calling it "brown", the public calls anything that isn't Augusta green; brown.  Healthy and light green is brown and sick to them.  You can hear them praising the new turf at Kapalua as being green on the tube right now. So, since you are a very intelligent person, how would you promote the playability of the condition we both know to be best to a public that thinks otherwise only due to their lack of knowledge and experience?  We are doing it, maintaining fast and firm, but still spending a lot on Fe to keep things faux green for an unknowing public.  

How would you explain to the average player the following:
greens that don't hold are a good thing?
hitting through fairways is more fun?
longer, thinner, patchy rough is better than short lush rough?

Looking forward to your ideas.

JT
Jim Thompson

TEPaul

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2006, 10:10:02 PM »
OK, Jim, I'm glad you asked. A group of us including some of the well known firm and fast supers around here are in the process of developing a well-honed completely comprehensive pitch and presentation for this. Some of them are even ready to go outside their national organization or the USGA recommendations if they have to. It's time to really start to hone it so I'll start posting and you can respond any way you want, questions, critiques, whatever, you name it because there's no way in hell you'll be more critical than the people we're going to face out there. But we're confident, and the good news is, as we all know, this dedicated firm and fast thing has started to happen at a few of the most famous and visible clubs in America.

Have you got a couple of weeks?  ;) :)

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2006, 10:15:08 PM »
Tom, Jim, etc.,

Don't forget how important this is at the entry level. The high profile guys will get the attention of the professional organizations with "pull", but the conversion of the next generation of golfers will be at the entry level courses. If a shift is to take place, it needs to be comprehensive.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Pete Stankevich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2006, 10:55:23 PM »
Back in the late 80's when I was playing college golf, I was a cart/bag boy at Wampanoag CC, the Ross gem in West Hartford that is mentioned on this site occasionally.
When that golf course played fast and firm, it was amazing, but it was noticeably brown.
At the time, the club president was a 20+ handicap, infrequent golfer who was also a CEO or something with a local corporation.  He occasionally landed the company helicopter on the driving range (ala Greg Norman).  Apparently,
he disliked the brown look of the golf course from his helicopter window and wanted it to look green and pretty!
The superintendent was then directed to follow through on his wishes and subsequently, the golf course went from brown
to green and the name should have been changed to Swampanoag.
I know this type of story has played out at many clubs and with this type of president or green committee too often in place, it's definitely an uphill battle.  With more supers and golfers pushing the fast and firm conditions, hopefully the tide will turn somewhat.  If only there was a requirement for every club president, greens chairman, owner, etc. to go play TOC or Fishers or Newport, maybe they would stop watering the crap out of their course.  Wishful thinking, I know. :(

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Selling Brown
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2006, 05:38:01 AM »


With all due respect, and recognizing that everything you have said is 100% true, do you have an idea to actively promote this concept or not?

Jim,

The Greens Chairman at Mountain Lake is a friend of Tom's and clearly he is listening to some if not many of Tom's ideas. Mountain Lake is normally a "Paulian Brown" shade. In speaking with Ned at ML, the key is education of the membership and the GREENS STAFF which will be more difficult with a public access course. However, I am sure that Ned does not think that educating the older local membership was a picnic.

Jari Rasinkangas

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2006, 07:18:27 AM »
The revolution is already started.  The biggest promotor for the brown is beautiful campaign will be the global warming.  There will be a huge lack of water in many places when hardly any artificial watering is allowed on golf courses.  :-[

In Finland it is though predicted that we will get more rains but e.g. Spain will be in trouble having severe droughts.  Parts of Spain may be turning into desert.

Jari

TEPaul

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2006, 07:20:59 AM »
JimS:

Mountain Lake is an interesting story this way, and so is Fox Chapel (two Raynor courses that went through a Silva restoration recently). Both those guys (three or four of them actually) are friends of mine and they've even collaborated with each other which I always think is a good thing.

Ned Young of ML is into this, we've been talking about the general concept for about 4-5 years but he's definitely got his own ideas about a lot of things--he always has and most all of them are positive and in the right direction, I think.

Sure it's been hard for him with some in the membership but he's persevering. It's going to be hard for anyone at any club who gets his club to commit to this kind of thing--this kind of transition. Anyone who gets into these kinds of projects and transitions has got to know that or they'll get hurt and generally they'll get mad and things will go from bad to worse.

You have to know going into these kinds of things you'll run into controversy and adversity. You have to be ready for it, not take it personally and not get adverserial yourself with any in the membership who oppose it or they'll really react negatively just for that reason and things will get harder to near impossible. I really believe that as I've seen it happen too often at too many places.

And because a transition like this will be opposed by some you have to have a honed presentation that'll convince them and that's what this thread and Jim Thompson's question is about.

JimThompson asked if there is a plan or a presentation that can be taken on the road, so to speak. Some of us are trying to develop just that. And I'd like to go over some of that. There's a lot of moving parts in this kind of thing---eg politics, education, playability, agronomics, time-issues, cost, etc.

But I'll tell you that my very strong sense now is that to present something like this to any membership or any course or club you have to start the whole thing off by coming at it from the point of view of PLAYABILITY first. To me that's key or perhaps even essential for success.

I'll explain why I think that.

Andy Troeger

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2006, 08:17:08 AM »

JimThompson asked if there is a plan or a presentation that can be taken on the road, so to speak. Some of us are trying to develop just that. And I'd like to go over some of that. There's a lot of moving parts in this kind of thing---eg politics, education, playability, agronomics, time-issues, cost, etc.

But I'll tell you that my very strong sense now is that to present something like this to any membership or any course or club you have to start the whole thing off by coming at it from the point of view of PLAYABILITY first. To me that's key or perhaps even essential for success.

I'll explain why I think that.

TEPaul,
  I would say you're on the right track with this too. Personally if we're just talking colors I love a dark, bright green much more than any of the brown, light green variations listed above. Therefore in my own opinion courses that are green do in fact look better to my eye. I know many of you disagree with that. What I won't argue is that playing golf in a swamp isn't much fun. I don't know that I'd want every course around to be a lovely shade of brown, but certainly those designed to play fast and firm would be would be better served for it.

wsmorrison

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2006, 08:32:21 AM »
I got a call from a friend on the green committee at The Country Club in Pepper Pike, Ohio and he is interested in establishing qualities and standards that will allow, with Mother Nature's blessing, firm and fast conditions and firm greens.  A process that gets them to this state is perfect for their course.  I pointed out to him the Scott Anderson interview in the Feature Interview section which includes his qualities and standards.  This fellow is coming out for the National Flynn Invitational and will meet Scott, Matt Shaffer (formerly of TCC, Pepper Pike), Mike McNulty, Scott May and see for himself the yields from the various approaches.  


Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2006, 08:39:42 AM »
Wayne,

Now that you mention Mother Nature, one of the interesting results from a "dried down" course is the ability of the soils to deal with seasonal moisture. I've found that my course doesn't get squishy after it rains, even in the off season. Part of this I attribute to a better pore structure in the soil, but I also believe the more vigorous root system holds things in a more stable state when the rains come.

Keep spreading the word,

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

wsmorrison

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2006, 08:44:09 AM »
That is an interesting point, Joe.  Thanks for sharing.  

I am sorry we missed seeing each other on your trip to Philadelphia.  I am glad that Mike Malone and Tom Paul were able to meet with you and your sons.  Both Tom and Mike were very pleased to meet with you and it sounds like you guys had some fun too.  I hope for you're next trip I won't be so tied up with business.  I'm starting a new company and it takes up a lot of time.  I hope we can stay in touch.

Regards,
Wayne

TEPaul

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2006, 08:44:29 AM »
AndyT:

You're on the right track too. By that I mean you said you actually like the look of a darker deeper shade of green on a golf course much better than light green or certainly brownish. Only problem with that is courses of that color are almost never firm and fast for obvious reasons. Basically they can't be.

So using you as an example, for this firm and fast revolution to work we're going to have to convince you and a whole lot of people liky you that the PLAYABILITY of firm and fast IN AND OF ITSELF is worth every bit and hopefully a lot more than you're aversion to a lighter green or some brown.

In other words the increase in excitement and interest of the PLAYABILITY of firm and fast really does have to sell itself in increased enjoyment. We can't just go out there and convince people with our words. The huge increase in enjoyment of real firm and fast is going to have to do it for us. And I firmly believe it can do that.

If it can't do that I would never be pursuing this whole thing because I know it never could work but I'm convinced, absolutely and totally convinced it can do that. I say that because I've seen it happen too often now. I've seen over a dozen golf courses who've made this transition even to a degree where the entire membership is saying things like "Where has our course been all these years?" And a lot of that is coming from the very people who fought so hard in the begiinning to prevent it.

The whole thing is due to firm and fast itself, not what any of us said about it. And when it comes to accepting the color, it's really no different than the tree huggers who fight you so hard in the beginning. When the trees do come down, inside a month those people can't even remember where those trees used to be or that they were there at all. It's amazing but it's true.

I'm convinced that any problems with getting many golfers to accept lighter green or even some brown will take the same course----that it will be so much more exciting for PLAYABILITY that in a month they won't even remember the color the golf course used to be.

But we should also be realistic that this kind of thing never will happen everywhere but if this PLAYABLITY of firm and fast is as good as we think it is and I'm seeing others think it is it will start selling itself once some critical mass has been acheived.

That's why I think it's absolutely essential to come at this entire issue from PLAYABILITY first.

I have a simple test why this is so. Just try standing up in front of a membership and asking them:

"Who WANTS to see us brown-out our course a little bit?"

I guarantee you that about three quarters of the room will raise their hands that they don't want that. But ask them:

"Who DOES NOT want firm and fast playing conditions?"

And I can almost guarantee you that hardly a single person in that room will rasise their hand. See why we need to come at this issue from PLAYABILITY first?

« Last Edit: January 07, 2006, 08:55:37 AM by TEPaul »

Scott Witter

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2006, 08:52:27 AM »
Hey, some of you might like the approach, but take your thoughts, Tom Paul and other convincing swashbucklers, to a handful of the more high profile golf pros, I mean the PGA guys and get them on board with the movement.  Could you imagine Jack at Muirfield going lean or for that matter any one of the PGA tour stops.  But if you can let John Q. Public SEE it on the TV and see that it works, then you may have a chance!

wsmorrison

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2006, 09:14:18 AM »
Tom Paul,

I think some of the resistance to light greens and browns on a golf course is the misconception that the grasses are dying.  Mike McNulty showed us how you can see some green deep amongst the brown that it indicates the grass will jumpstart back to green when watered.  He also showed us that for his type of grass that even if it is completely brown it may still be alive when he pulled a bit of grass out and there were white nodules beneath the surface.  I think part of the education plan has to include an understanding of what is a bit green, what is brown and alive and these are a far cry from dead.

TEPaul

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2006, 09:19:04 AM »
Scott:

You've got a good point there and in fact that's one of the things that complicates this entire issue. It's also one of the little known facts of the age old "Augusta Syndrome".

If you don't think the pros play firm and fast conditions then I'd say you are most definitely wrong about that. And if you don't think they actually enjoy the challenge of it I'd say you're wrong about that too. Just watch the Mercedes at Kapalua this weekend if you want to see firm and fast conditions on tour both "through the greens" and even much firmer on the greens. And then listen to what the pros are saying about it.

Kapalua has been this way for a few years now but this year it's even more so, particularly on their new greens. And I sure haven't failed to notice the truly increased roll-out on most of the tour stops last year and the year before.

So what's going on here? What's going on is the tour set-ups have been going for firm and fast PLAYABILITY far more than they used to. It's obvious---just take note of the real increased roll-out most weeks (if it hasn't rained) compared to the way it used to be.

Apparently not many, even you perhaps, are noticing this. What you are noticing, though, as most others are is the grass still looks real green and it is.

So what does that mean? Well, it's that dirty little secret that no one who understands this stuff seems to want to admit or even mention including ANGC at the Masters all these years, and that the rest are just not aware of.

And that is you can have really good firm and fast conditions---eg real roll-out "through the green" of 50+ yards of more AND green or even fairly lush looking grass conditions too!

Only problem is to get BOTH you are going to really have to pay for it, and I mean REALLY PAY FOR IT. The other dirty little secret is even at those courses it's generally temporary, maybe not much more than a couple of weeks a year! Mostly the few weeks going in, the week of the tournament and then BOOM---the course is snapped back out of it.

The other day Matt Shaeffer of Merion gave us a little black-board lesson on what that actually means in dollars and results. He said when you get to about the last 10% of that kind of tournament set up conditions of both green and real fast and firm that's when the cost really starts to increase and I mean HUGE!

That fact and those dirty little secrets with our presentation is going to be explained loud and clear---eg that if you want both real firm and fast playing condition as well as that kind of green you can have it but you'll have to pay for it and BIGTIME!

I think that when the truth about that is known, a lot of the confusion and misperception will fade away and far more clubs will understand the truth of firm and fast PLAYBILITY in relation to the color of the grass.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2006, 09:26:09 AM by TEPaul »

Scott Witter

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2006, 09:33:41 AM »
Tom P.

Fair enough and I realize that, but you would agree though that TV has such an amazing influence on weekend warrior handicap 20 golfers as they gaze in amazement at voila  "Augusta syndrome" that by in large, they have little to no real understanding such as you and I have, about what the Pros actually play on.

I know it, you know and most on this site may know it, but John Q. Public doesn't, so they only know what the SEE and round and round we go!

David Sneddon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2006, 09:45:59 AM »
Tom P

Can you give us an idea of how much extra $$$ it costs to achieve the Tournament conditions, without violating any confidentiality???  
Expressed perhaps as xx% additional to normal course maintenance budget.


Give my love to Mary and bury me in Dornoch

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2006, 09:50:18 AM »
Here's a taste of how "the enemy" thinks:

Last summer, after years of hearing me preach the virtues of dry/firm/fast, my business partner (we own a golf course) played in his golf league after a 1 inch rainfall the day before. I asked how the course played , and this was his response:

      "Finally, the ball stopped where it was supposed to....."

I was astounded! I figured he was getting it, buying into, all of the positive aspects of drying the place down. The real kicker here is that this guy is a PGA Pro who has previously been a collegiate golf coach.

Moral of story: Even if someone says they "get it", chances are they probably don't.

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Kyle Harris

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2006, 09:51:48 AM »
Joe,

Balls can still stop where they're supposed to after 20 feet of roll  ;)

TEPaul

Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2006, 09:57:03 AM »
"Tom Paul,
I think some of the resistance to light greens and browns on a golf course is the misconception that the grasses are dying."

Wayne:

Of course that's true but that kind of misconception can be easily explained. Well, maybe not easily but it can be explained and honestly. Just tell them that's just not necessarily the case--eg brownish grass is not dead--or not necessarily. Matter of fact, the truth is it CAN be almost the exact opposite---given a certain set of circumstances.

I'd like to be able to say it's just completely untrue but unfortunately that's not true either. This whole thing in the end when you're talking about browning in any way gets down to this entire issue of what "dormancy" is with various grasses under various conditions.

Do you know where I'm going with this---do you understand what I mean? This could be a good test for even the contributors on here (other than the supers on here).

It wasn't until about two months ago that I understood what this meant---this issue of dormancy. So I asked and asked, Scott Anderson, Scott May, Mike McNulty, Matt Shaeffer, my guy at GMGC and others. I think I understand it now and if not some of the supers on here will tell me if I don't and why I don't. But I think I do and this kind of thing can be easily explained to clubs, and it needs to be because hardly anyone has understood it from the membership side of clubs. Why would they---for the last fifty years the entire world of American golf agronomy has been massively over-irrigated and chemical dependent?

Is that condition really healthy grass? Not on your life. I call it the "Emergency Ward" and it is that. Super lush over-irrigated chemical dependent grass lives in a condition where it can't fend for itself in Nature very well, it has to be spoon feed practically every day.

The irony is when it lives in the "Emergency Ward" it's lush and deep green and most everyone thinks it looks great and looks healthy, just the opposite of what we as human beings look like in our Emergency Wards. We look terrible and we'll probably die if we aren't taken care of every minute.

Same with lush green grass, if it's not ministered to constantly even though it's lush and deep green it will check out almost immediately if tahen to brownish and it will be dead. It doesn't have a period of dormancy or if it does it's so short as to be virtually meaningless. I never knew that until recently---I never understood this issue of dormancy in agronomics. In my opinion---it's key, at least under some circumstances.

It's the exact opposite with grass that's been conditoned to fend for itself with far less irrigation and chemical. It can be light green far more easily and when it browns some it's in dormancy and can stay there far longer. Look at Donnie's Fishers Island---it can go all the way to total brown and stay there for weeks and weeks on end and when it finally gets rain it just snaps right back. Grass that lives in the Emergency Ward of over-irrigation and chemical dependancy can't do that--it'll just crap out and die almost immediately. But it takes time to make the transition from the Emergency Ward to healthy and tough. Probably 3-5 years minimum.

Clubs need to know that because it takes a committment. If they don't know that they may just shut off their water and chemicals and kill their course because their agronomy isn't ready--it's not there yet. It needs the time, it needs the club's committment to that time to let it transition. If we don't tell them the truth about all this they'll do it wrong and kill their courses and end up blaming us.

But when it gets there after a few years a whole lot of benefits result. It's just that so few American courses have gone through this process in modern times. But some are beginning to now---for the first time and the benefits are beginning to show, because they're now past that 3-5 year period and they made the transition correctly.

 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2006, 10:09:36 AM by TEPaul »

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Selling Brown, light green, tan, golden, non-lush etc...
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2006, 09:57:37 AM »
Kyle,

That's my point. The ball stops where the ball stops. If the ground is firm, it'll stop later rather then sooner. The golfer who get's it will play to that condition, and very well may utilize and incorporate the ground into their play. The golfer who thinks the ball is supposed to stop where it lands has a long way to go before they truly embrace T Paul's Maintenance Meld.

Bump and Run,

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017