[A_Clay_Man]

If Torrey bombs as a venue, anything can happen, especially past 2016. And who said anything about replacing pebble or Olympic. It could be added, not replacing.

[Jordan Wall]

How bout keeping sahalee on the rotation??

other courses:
kapalua plantation
pumpkin ridge?
castle pines
crystal downs

just suggestions

[Tom Huckaby]

Adam - re adding rather than replacing, it's just VERY difficult to believe the USGA would give that many Opens to Northern California.  If Torrey bombs and they're committed to a third California site, I just can't see that being Spyglass.  But then again there aren't any other obvious candidates - but don't you think they'd try anything to get Riviera or another SoCal site before they'd go north again?

And if they do go north, wouldn't it be for a muni to replace Torrey?

I believe they use Harding way before they use Spyglass....

TH

[Jordan Wall]

i doubt it will EVER happen but cypress point if torrey bombs??

[Kyle Harris]

Jordan,

A lot of those courses hold some of the secondary and tertiary championships held by the USGA and PGA. For example, the PGA held a VERY successful Senior PGA Championship at Aronimink in 2003.

Pumpkin Ridge often holds USGA Championships like the US Junior and Mid-Am.

Also, a lot of the time, the club doesn't want to be bothered with the championship.

[Brian Noser]

Tom How Bout LACC. for the PGA? they didnot want to make a bunch of changes to get the open could the Pga go in and say keep it the same and have it there? or am I confused about the situation?

[Tom Huckaby]

Brian - LACC was immediately one that I thought of.  But I am assuming that such course is off limits until we hear otherwise.  Oh man, if the members there would allow such a thing, a major there would be fantastic.

TH

[JESII]

Adam,

When I suggested replacing Pebble or Olympic I was referring to the geographic considerations for these tournaments. They both (USGA and PGA) want, and probable need, to get into as many areas of the country as possible and having three venues in such close quarters might be detrimental to the whole.

I think Spyglass could be a fine course for the PGA or US Open, trouble is I would bet there are about 50 courses that could be just as fine for either event and selecting one with such popular neighbors might not be the best decision. At the very least give me something more than the deception of less wind on the inland holes than those out in the open and the rampant head scratching that might cause.

[Jordan Wall]

Tom-

Why would LACC be off limits??

[Tom Huckaby]

The USGA for many years apparently wanted to hold an Open at LACC - the members and management there refused such.  Now apparently that feeling has changed... but if they were to do it, the course might need some changes - as Brian says.  LACC does NOT want to do that.

As for Cypress, they remain with the thorny issue of having no minority members (I think) - the reason the Crosby was moved from there to Poppy Hills.  But even assuming that can be overcome, well... I don't see Cypress as a major site.  It is just so short that it would have to be bastardized to bejesus to avoid massive sub-par scores.  That immediately eliminates US Open consideration, and likely PGA.  Hell I as a fan would LOVE to see a major there, and could care less if 28 under wins.  But I don't see even the PGA having this attitude, not to mention the USGA.

And you want to talk about a place that neither wants nor needs the aggravation... that's Cypress all over.  I have to believe the members there would quit before they go to that type of bother.

TH

[Brian Noser]

jordan I do not know the whole story but the members do not want that at their course? I thought it was because they did not want to make a bunch of changes per the tournament comitee. I could be wrong someone here will know if i am not correct.

that huckaby guy beat me to it.

[Tom Huckaby]

jordan I do not know the whole story but the members do not want that at their course? I thought it was because they did not want to make a bunch of changes per the tournament comitee. I could be wrong someone here will know if i am not correct.

Brian - my impression there was that traditionally they just didn't want the bother - didn't want to give the course up to the masses for the time required.  But word is that at least some part of that feeling has changed, and that current members/management would be open to it (pun intended).  However, now the course would require lengthening and/or changes, and that's the end of that - no way anyone there wants to do that.

TH

[Jordan Wall]

thanks brian

and not to be a jerk for those of you who think LACC would be a good site -even I do- but I have this feeling that lengthening courses is becoming all to common and I dont really like it.  To do that to LACC would be bad, and it would be HORRIBLE to do to CPC...I do agree with you though tom I would absolutely love to see it at CPC.  I could about guarantee it would be probably the most popular site for the people and the pros

[Tom Huckaby]

Jordan - well you've hit on the essence of all of this - lengthening established great courses just for the purpose of hosting majors is a HORRIBLE idea no matter how one looks at it.

But it does seem to occur.  And I guess it can be done without too much bad effects (witness Merion).  Still, this is a precedent that needs to stop.

So that's why I say as cool as it would be to see a major at Cypress - and damn right, it would be a fan favorite for the ages - well... I just don't trust them.

But not to worry, I DO trust the members.

In the end, keeping Cypress - and other courses like it - as they are has to be way more important than getting them to host majors.

TH

[JESII]

Here's a question that ties into this thread.

Which event would be more attractive to a club that (like LACC) might be reluctant to make significant course alterations, the US Open or the PGA? That is if the USGA wants significant changes and the PGA does not. Remember, I'm not asking about a club clamouring for whichever event it can get, but rather an established club that has to weigh the negatives of course alterations with the upside of being a US Open course as compared to the somewhat less upside of the PGA.

Is there any chance the question is hiding in there somewhere?

[Brian Noser]

I do not know about favorite for the pros. Cause it would be so tricked up and goofy to keep the scores higher they all would complain because it is unfair. I would love it though you are correct.

I need to keep posting you are catching me and i have been a member much longer then you, darn kids and xmas breaks.

[Jordan Wall]

THIS IS WHY SPYGLASS IS SUCH A GOOD SITE  You dont have to add length or make changes to the course because remember it is SUPER tough anyway

Oh yea, Tom man...I totally agree with...My uncle goes to the US Open every year and I would fly down with him again if it was at Cypress (I've been with him twice).  It would be WELL worth it, and all fans would love it

[Jordan Wall]

how many posts till you become a YaBB God and Sr. Member Brian???

By the way Spyglass is perfect I truly believe it

[A_Clay_Man]

. They both (USGA and PGA) want, and probable need, to get into as many areas of the country as possible and having

Sully, Dont think im advocating any course of action, or any venue, but, clearly this statement of yours needs to be qualified to ONLY include major markets.

If the powers truely wanted to be in varied parts of the country there are a shitload of venues worthy. But the powers needs to refuel itself on greenbacks is at the heart of their image. Or at least the image I see.

[Tom Huckaby]

JES:  good question.

Obviously PGA doesn't have close to cachet that the US Open does.  But we weight that against the PGA not tending to require the course modifications that the Open would.  It is a tough call.

I just think that it depends on the club and how much they really want a major.  The more they want one period, the more they settle for PGA.  The more they could care less and the majors are courting them, the more they hold out for US Open or nothing.

So we'd have to take this on a case by case basis.

Jordan:  yes, no length need be added to Spyglass.  This however doesn't take away the many practical reasons we've listed as to why an Open won't/can't be held there.  See, I don't think any of us doubts it would be a worth site... our doubts are as to the practicalities.

TH

[Brian Noser]

Not a clue!!!! But you are well on your way!!! You are only 70 behind me. Good luck in your posting.

[Jordan Wall]

Fine Tom you've convinced me Spyglass might not be the best site for a major even though i dont know how ya did it;)

Here is a question I've always wondered though...

What are the differences in changes (big and small) made to courses for the US Open compared to courses holding the PGA?


100th post

[Tom Huckaby]

Well it's no fun squelching dreams.  I am getting old.  

As for the differences in course preparation changes, well... traditionally the PGA just hasn't been so adamant about "defending par" as the USGA always is.  Oh they want a testing site, but they're not as rabid about it.  So a course like Baltusrol or Winged Foot is left a little more like normal, as opposed to if an Open goes there....

Those are the best two to compare.  Pebble might be another.  There aren't that many courses that have hosted both Opens and PGAs.

But I guess the general idea is just that the PGA remains not quite as concerned with protecting par.  And here's hoping they stay that way.

TH

[JESII]

Adam,

My first instinct was to agree with your request for qualification and then I thought of Kohler, Wisconsin and Charlestown, SC. Now if they count as major markets I'd agree 100%, but you tell me.

[Jordan Wall]

would pine valley have to make any changes IF it were to hold a major???

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