[peter_mcknight]

The PGA of America just released the card of the course for Medinah at this year's USPGA Championship.  It will play 7561 yards, par 72, a 160 yard gain from just 7 years ago when Tiger beat El Nino by a shot.  Medinah, like it was in 1999, will be the longest major venue of the year (and the US Open will be the shortest).  Medinah beats out Whisting Straits by 47 yards for longest USPGA venue.

Hole 1--434 yards, par 4 (+45)
Hole 2--191 yards, par 3
Hole 3--414 yards, par 4
Hole 4--463 yards, par 4 (+15)
Hole 5--537 yards, par 5 (+10)
Hole 6--474 yards, par 4 (+25)
Hole 7--587 yards, par 5
Hole 8--204 yards, par 3
Hole 9--435 yards, par 4 (-5)
Out--3739 yards, par 36

Hole 10--579 yards, par 5
Hole 11--438 yards, par 4 (+30)
Hole 12--471 yards, par 4
Hole 13--244 yards, par 3 (+25)
Hole 14--605 yards, par 5 (+20)
Hole 15--392 yards, par 4
Hole 16--453 yards, par 4
Hole 17--197 yards, par 3 (-10)
Hole 18--443 yards, par 4
In--3822 yards, par 36

The real major change occurred at the 17th, where the green site was moved from on the hillside down back towards Lake Kadijah, similar to where it was for the 1988 US Senior Open and the 1990 US Open.  Further, some trees were removed, so it isn't as claustrophobic as it used to be.

As I have stated earlier on a previous thread about Medinah, the 5th hole for championship tournaments should become a par 4 rather than a par 5 that hasn't gained any real yardage in over 50 years.

This seems like a bit of a slog, similar to what Torrey Pines has become (since both had the same surgeon of record).

[PThomas]

only ONE par 4 under 400!

[Mike_Cirba]

only ONE par 4 under 400!

That's only if they don't put the pin back.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Or, maybe that's the risk/reward, driveable short par four at 392?  

[PThomas]

we can't slip anything past you Mike!

[Jeff Goldman]

Guys, the longest par-4 is 474.  These days, that is mid-length unless played uphill or into the wind.  Therefore, does that mean that Medinah in certain ways might be too short because it has NO long par-4s?  Much of the length is in the par-5s, and the overall yardage is a bit deceiving as it is a par 72.

[PThomas]

good points Jeff!

[Jeff Goldman]

Shivas,

Is it long these days?

[Mike_Cirba]

Shivas,

I'm not making fun of Medinah as a long, boring slog.  As Jeff Goldman points out, it may be too short!  

I'm simply pointing out that our ideas of what's a long course have changed markedly over the past decade, as a flattish 475 yard par four is likely driver/8-iron for much of the field.

I'm old enough to recall when 475 yards was a par five.

[wsmorrison]

The par 3s are 191, 204, 244 and 197.  No short par 3s?  Please don't say that 191 is short these days. How different do these holes play in terms of orientation, elevation (is there any?) and the like?

[Jeff Goldman]

Shel and Shivas can answer way better than I can about the par-3s, but 3 of them go across Lake Kadijah, lending them a certain similarity.  For players like me they are pretty similar - hit it and then go to the drop zone.  Incidently, I'll be on 13 with my hands up during part of the PGA (didn't qualify for one of those paddles that say "QUIET!"), and it should be fun.

Jeff

[SL_Solow]

Re the par 3s;  2 was a terrific hole with a very difficult green, fairly narrow with a severe front to back slope headed toward the water.  The green was changed; much wider and much flatter.  I liked th old hole better.  13 was the original 17 in the old routing and pivotal in Middlecoff's victory.  A very solid par 3 over water to an interesting green.  It used to be a long iron for the good players.  17 was built as part of the new routing and has been changed at least 3 times in its short lifetime.  At first it was thought to be too similar to 13.  The bulkhead is ugly but the hole is ok.  # one shotters over the lake are a bit repetitive for my tastes.

[Andrew Summerell]

Will they have the standard 6 inch rough bordering the fringes?

[Doug Siebert]

Its pretty easy to create a course that sounds very long based on total yardage that isn't too long -- even if it is flat and at sea level.

Does 7800 yards sound like a long course?  What if it had 12 par 4s averaging 450, 3 par 3s averaging 200 and 3 par 5s averaging 600?  That's not terribly long, certainly you don't need to drive it 320 to play it, and it even leaves room for a driveable par 4, a 400-ish short but not reachable par 4, a short par 3 and a reachable par 5.

I've played a course over 7500 yards near sea level with lots of elevation change that didn't seem terribly long because all that yardage was well spread out between the holes, and it still had a few shorter holes to break the monotony you'd get if all par 4s were over 400 or all par 3s over 200.

[Tim_Cronin]

What's interesting is that the 7,561-yard length is even longer than was announced last year, when much of the talk with Rees Jones and club officials centered on how long courses could-would-should get.
The club, Jones and PGA were mulling adding another back tee (the back, back tee?) on the 5th, and did so, going from 527 to 537. It'll be back and to the right, for that matter. The 11th is also longer (438 rather than the previously announced 413, a back, back tee under construction last year having been completed), and so is the 14th (605 yards rather than 586), though I don't recall seeing a tee being built. (Not that it would take long.)
No guarantee, of course, that the course will play 7,561 on any given day, but it'll be close.
The par 3s: No. 2's big change was the lessening of the slope, plus the introduction of a back bunker to give a back pin position some bite. The green was also moved left a bit to bring the water into play beyond a short shot.
No. 8 tee was elevated an a hill between tee and green cut down to take away some blindness.
No. 13 (old No. 17) was rebuilt, both tee and green (the green had also been rebuilt prior to the 1988 U.S. Senior Open to be able to handle modern green speeds), bringing a back tee which the USGA skipped using in 1949 and 1975 into play.
No. 17, new version, would be 17.3 if it was a computer program. The green's back by the water, shaped differently than before, with the tee back on the hill, so the distance is the same as 1999, but the hole is no longer a yawn.
Trees: about 300, many of them around greens, were taken out to allow for better air circulation and morning sun.

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