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John Kavanaugh

Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« on: December 17, 2005, 08:13:08 AM »
I had never heard of this Rubenstein fellow until a couple of days ago.  It was my loss.  Given that one becomes a God on this site with just a thousand posts I can respect the fact that real world golf deities exist.  When Herbert Warren Wind was alive a few years ago he was a deity....are there any writers like him still chugging away.  Bill Coore has earned his lofty status for obvious reasons...so, who are the real golf deities and why...

I hope this thread does not offend anyone as that is not its intent...It does a measure of good for people like me to learn who the great writers or bunker builders are...I had never heard of Wind, Rubenstein, Darwin, Bunker Hill boys, etc. before I found this site.

Oh yea,  At the GCSAA show in Orlando Brad Klein introduced me to a couple of superintendent deities...and damn if I can't recall who they are...So, include turf and construction gods if you choose..
« Last Edit: December 17, 2005, 08:15:50 AM by John Kavanaugh »

PThomas

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Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2005, 08:43:12 AM »
John --  of course there are some very good writers today, but deity status??  not sure if any qualify for that.....Dan Jenkins probably does, but he does seem to focus too much on the Hogan era...

if you don't have any of Wind's books, get some!!  he was SO good....the New Yorker used to let his essays go on for pages and pages ...I can't imagine any media outlet giving someone that much space these days..it gave him the time to really paint a complete picture

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Tom_Doak

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Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2005, 08:46:03 AM »
John:

There were a bunch of writer-deities when I was twenty, most of whom I got to meet once or twice -- Herb Wind, Peter Dobereiner, Charles Price, Pat Ward-Thomas (whom I never met), Bob Drum, Jim Murray.  To be sure, there are some good writers now, but I'm not sure who has replaced those guys as living legends who have been around the game forever.  The only one from that generation who is still active is Dan Jenkins.

For superintendents, there are so many in the USA that I'm sure I would miss many of them, so I will let someone else start that list.  In Scotland there used to be three:  Walter Woods, Jimmy Kidd, and George Brown.  The first two are retired from St. Andrews and Gleneagles, but still active in consulting; George Brown was still at Turnberry last I heard.

To most golfers, however, the deities of golf are Palmer and Nicklaus.

PThomas

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Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2005, 08:59:36 AM »
Dobereiner, as Tom D said, was also awesome...I still remember an article he wrote about Norman, hedging his bets on whether Greg would win more than 1 major...he was almost dead-on right about that!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Phil_the_Author

Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2005, 09:32:31 AM »
Taking up on what Tom Doak said, I have never been so fascinated in interviewing anyone in golf as when I had the opportunity to sit with Walter Woods two years back. It wasn't just his history at the Old Course & with the European PGA Tour, but more so his humility.

Here was a man whose knowledge of turf, links courses and the history of the game is second to none inviting me to come and stay with him when I would come back over. I had the feeling that he would and had made that offer to many that he believed had a genuine interest in the game.

His humility really showed forth when he asked me if I could "put him in touch with the greenkeeper at Bethpage..." because from everything he had seen and heard "about the young man, he is astounding... and I have a lot of questions for him and am interested in how he takes care of his courses..."

He actually felt that he had things to learn from Craig Currier!

To me, it is that humble attitude that comes when someone is comfortable in their own accomplishments that truly define one as a "deity" in his field.

Another example of this, and he has treated me in this fashion, is Dave Anderson.    

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2005, 07:17:10 PM »
I read lots of golf writing and there are a few writers I consistently read to the end. About half of them sometimes ply their trade for where I make my living. (Note: some people--including my Mom--think you actually have to get paid to call it making a living. But if that were true I’d have to call myself a bum, and I don’t want to do that.)

Most of the time I’ll read the first two graphs, and that will be it. These writers I read their stuff to the end. Nobody has replaced Herb Wind, Bernard Darwin or Jim Murray, but maybe you have to wait until it is nostalgia before making the call.

Lorne Rubenstein has been great for a long time and I think future generations will still be reading his stuff for years to come.

Our own Geoff Shackelford has now become one of the best writers. He first wrote for GolfWeb as a snot-nosed kid who had talent. Regardless if you agree or disagree with his opinion, it is always worth reading.

John Huggan who writes for the Scotsman and lives in Dunbar, Scotland is consistently good and deserves being read every week.

George White who writes for The Golf Channel always finds something worth writing about.

David Feherty for Golf Magazine has been known to write a clanker now and then, but his good stuff is so good it is worth getting through the clankers to find the gems.

Michael Bamberger is controversial right now, but his stuff is always interesting and well written.

I’d also throw in Brad Klein and Ron Whitten as good writers – though a little to into rankings for my taste.

There are some good newspaper golf writers who show promise, but their papers don’t really give them enough space to shine. I like Thomas Bonk with the L.A. Times, Jim McCabe for the Boston Globe, Tod Leonard for the San Diego Union-Tribune, Art Spander for the Oakland Tribune, Gary D’Amato for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Mel Webb for the London Times,  Steve Elling for the Orlando Sentinel, Peter Williams for the New Zealand Herald, Lynn DeBruin for the Rocky Mountain News, Bob Harig for the St. Petersburg Times and Vartan Kupelian for the Detroit News. That ended up being many more than I thought, but these are some I have bookmarked.
 
I thought with the Internet we could get back to the two or three thousand word pieces like Wind’s in the New Yorker. If anything the Internet has gone the opposite way, keeping pieces down to 800 words. The bloggers have even taken it further the other way, contributing a controversial graph or two and then hoping for response. The times in the past when we have published long pieces and split them up into multiple pieces, often we see hits go way down between the parts of the piece.

I’d like to see more of talented writers without golf backgrounds write about golf. Obviously it isn’t going to happen for the small amount we can pay writers, but if we ever get reasonably successful…

Dan King
Quote
Golf is the cruelest if sports. Like life, it's unfair. It's a harlot. A trollop. It leads you on. It never lives up to it's promises. . . It's a boulevard of broken dreams. It plays with men. And runs off with the butcher.
 --Jim Murray

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2005, 08:54:26 PM »
Jack Whitaker
Jim Nance
Ben Crenshaw
Jack Nicklaus
Arnold Palmer
Ken Venturi
Peter Alliss
Johnny Miller
Sam Snead
Bryon Nelson
Ben Wright
David Ledbetter



What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2005, 09:48:02 PM »
mdugger:  I would quibble with a couple of your choices, but you probably should take Mr. Snead off your list.  

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2005, 10:24:33 PM »
In my book there is only one living deity:

Jack Nicklaus

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2005, 10:46:39 PM »
There are so many..............but,

Golfers........
Gene Littler (personal all time deity)
Jack Nicklaus (for his overriding excellence and record)
George Knudsen (closest swing mechanics to Hogan, at least I thought so when I first really studied the swing, and therefore still hold that memory as so.)
Tom Watson (for the courage that I believe exemplifies his approach to swinging the club, playing the game, and using his stature in the game to further all of us).
Gary Player (for his display and lifelong development of the rarified quality of intention)
Byron Nelson (for his longevity, his move into from the top into the hitting zone, and his life as testimony to the power of the Texas plains.)
.....and saving perhaps the best for last.......Mickey Wright (her swing and humble nature).

Architects.....
Bill Coore (for his humble, grounded nature and graciousness, and the courses that come from those sublime qualities).

Writers.....
Waiting for someone to fill the void that appeared when Pat Ward Thomas, Mr. Wind, and the sublime Mr. Pennick passed.
(With a kudo to Michael Murphy for presenting us with a most compelling and, I believe, everlasting venture into golf and the spirit of being human while we hold a club and DREAM.)

Others......
Jim Nance (for his ability to always be in the right place, say the right thing, with that special touch of his...I have a sense that quality will grow and grow, to our delight and appreciation)
Joe Duich (turfgrass research god)
Jimmy Kidd......(Larger than life as far as I can tell)
Tom Huckaby.......(for his beautiful quality of being self-effacing, self-questioning, and as far as I can tell, truly humble........qualities that we all can use in life.)

Thanks for the opportunity.

Tom


 
the pres

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2005, 10:48:06 PM »
I wish he had written more; his essay in G. Shackleford's book is great - Pete Dye. Maybe he will write more..

Michael Hayes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2005, 11:01:08 PM »
TOM you are my hero...That was the best post I have ever read...You have to sidetrack into town when I am down, how about @ the crow's nest...MH.
Bandonistas Unite!!!

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2005, 11:10:22 PM »
..........Crime in Italy.........pissing into the burn from the bridge?  Do you know that by morning it would be at Dornoch?

Hope it was a good brew!


Ok..........the Crows Nest it is.

Blessings,
Tom
the pres

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2005, 11:14:56 PM »
..........Golf God Jack of All Trades........

Sandy Tatum, who can write, speak, walk, administer, revere, design, and, most importantly, play the game........big time.

Tom
the pres

RT

Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2005, 02:36:07 AM »
I'll add Dr. James B. Beard to the list. International Turfgrass Researcher and author.  For those who know enough said.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2005, 02:53:06 PM »
Eddie Adams, especially if the alleged incident in China turns out to be true.

Don Dinkmeyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2005, 03:10:08 PM »
EDITED to say - yes, i need my coffee - it took 3 passes on this thread to realize Mr. Snead is not DQ.

He is dead.

 ::)

mdugger:  I would quibble with a couple of your choices, but you probably should take Mr. Snead off your list.  

I'm here to learn - what about Snead DQ's him (anyone)?

The new Snead bio by Al Barkow is a good chronology but it didn't reveal any hidden jewels...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2005, 03:13:07 PM by Don Dinkmeyer »

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2005, 03:29:40 PM »
He is not living.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2005, 03:31:39 PM »
He is not living.

This may be one of the classic threads ;D

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2005, 06:11:18 PM »
Ok

my bad

Snead is not living ::)
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2005, 06:24:28 PM »
How can Jack Nicklaus be a living deity given his nod to Mammon -- he is on a 5# note! ;)

£5 note from The Royal Bank of Scotland plc. I've got one and I'm pleased I've got one.  He presumably gave his assent to this but even if it was part of the promotion deal he has with them, and he had to give his assent, I don't think this is something we can reasonably hold against him.

At least in playing terms, until disproved by others he remains the Greatest Living Golfer. A bona fide deity.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2005, 06:28:50 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Chris Moore

Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2005, 09:25:44 PM »
Just curious why non one has mentioned Tiger.  Too young to be deified?

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2005, 09:46:41 PM »
Not to be a stick in the mud, but while I hold a great many human in high regard, I have a difficult time utilizing the term "deity" on any of them. Besides, if I thought of any human as deity, think how quick they would let me down! ;D

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2005, 01:02:21 AM »
It's Jim Nantz, not Nance (the old football player).
I'd replace him with Jim Mckay, anyway. Retired now, but wrote his own copy for the intros he voiced on ABC telecasts of golf and more. His intro to a British Open at St. Andrews in the 1980s will make you cry.
Nantz's perfect one-liners at the end of tournaments (i.e., "As grand as it gets" when Woods completed the consecutive slam) are dreamed up in advance, and sound like it.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Brian Walshe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Who are the living deities of golf and why...
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2005, 06:51:40 AM »
Most of the people named are exceptional at what are reasonable skills.  I prefer my deities to be exceptional at the exceptional.

I nominate Michael A Clayton, the best combination of talker and golfer the world has ever seen.  If the Majors had a rule that said you had to be talking whilst you swung the club, Mike would have Tiger looking for a new career.

I played a round with Mike at Woodlands a year ago and can vividly remember him standing over a 3 iron whilst giving an indepth description of the 4th at Barnbougle Dunes.  He never paused is his dissertation and never even looked where the 3 iron he ripped to 10 feet had gone.

On the trip home one of the guys in our group turned to me and said "How is it humanly possible in a world where a camera shutter can seemingly deafen Tiger that Clayts can talk through every shot and putt and still shoot 67?"

The answer of course is that it's not human, Clayts is a God.

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