News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rubenstein on Whitman
« on: December 15, 2005, 05:30:34 PM »
Lorne pens an article in today's Globe and Mail about Rod Whitman...

Architect Whitman deserves more recognition
   
    By LORNE RUBENSTEIN Thursday, December 15, 2005

You won't find Rod Whitman's name on a list of today's acclaimed golf course architects.

But the Albertan ought to be at the head of any ranking of least-known architects who should be well known.

Whitman doesn't market himself, though, and you have to make an effort to get to his courses. (I've not visited any myself, yet. But pictures, his words and accolades from others tell of an architect whose work is worth exploring.)

There's Wolf Creek in Ponoka, Alta., which was the host of a Canadian Tour event for years. Players appreciated its rugged golf. Then there's Blackhawk, near Edmonton, another exercise in understated, hardy golf. Whitman has remote Scottish linksland in his DNA.

"I get charged up just walking on a property," Whitman said recently before boarding a plane in Edmonton bound for Bordeaux, France. "It's a lot of fun to imagine holes. People think you're a glorified 'dozer guy, but there's a lot to it."

Whitman, 51, could call the bulldozer home. Instead, he calls himself "homeless." He stays at his mother's place when he's around Ponoka, where Wolf Creek opened more than 20 years ago. When he visits his daughter in Indiana, he stays with her at his former wife's place. But he's usually on a course, imagining it or building it.

"If the ability to create a wonderful product on the ground were the sole measure of success in this business, Rod Whitman of Alberta, Canada, would be highly acclaimed instead of unknown," architect Bill Coore, Ben Crenshaw's design partner, said in an interview at http://www.golfclubatlas.com.

Whitman has worked with Coore on a variety of projects, including Friar's Head in Riverhead, Long Island, N.Y. The Crenshaw-Coore course is as impressive as their inspirational Sand Hills track in Mullen, Neb., where Whitman also worked. Whitman has worked with Pete Dye, too.

But why was Whitman off to France? He was headed there to meet with Coore and move the 18th green on their Chateau course at Golf du Medoc. He'd just returned to civilization from an extended hunting trip in the mountains near Ponoka, where he'd bagged a "fairly nice deer."

Whitman joked that he'd put the mounted deer in a clubhouse at a new course where construction will start in March. That's the Sagebrush Golf and Sporting Club. It's in the B.C. desert -- yes, there's desert in B.C. -- 15 kilometres from Merritt. Richard Zokol, the founder, has been, well, mounting the course for three years.

Zokol's just completed the financing for the course, which he intends to be a private retreat from all the cares of the world, overlooking a lake 15 kilometres from Merritt. Like Whitman, he's a purist when it comes to course design. He and Whitman will work well together. Crenshaw, by the way, recommended that Zokol use Whitman.

Whitman also hopes to be working soon on a proposed course called Cabot Links on an ideal site between Inverness, N.S., and the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Ben Cowan-Dewar of Toronto is the developer and is trying to raise money for the public course.

The property is linksland -- if there is such a landscape in Canada. The Cape Breton Growth Fund, an arm of Enterprise Cape Breton Corp., has pledged $2.5-million toward the project. The Inverness Development Association, a volunteer organization representing the town, donated the land.

Cabot Links will return money to the fund over a 15-year period based on a royalty agreement.

The vision for this course has been around for years, and the property speaks authentic, strategic, seaside golf. The course could attract golfers from afar, much like the vaunted Bandon Dunes resort has to remote Bend, Ore.

"I'd love to do that thing," Whitman said. "We've already done a good routing. The property is almost on the beach and the town almost surrounds it, like St. Andrews [in Scotland]."

Should the money be found, Whitman's ready to go on Cabot Links. He's also ready to go at Sagebrush. Whitman will probably have some input from Jeff Mingay, a student of classic architecture who lives in Windsor, Ont., and who has worked with him, at Blackhawk, for one.

"He likes to play in the dirt," Whitman said.

So does Whitman, who also enjoys reading widely, including books on high-energy physics. He's a high-energy guy.

When Sagebrush is done, and assuming Cabot Links gets built, Whitman will need all the energy he can find, because he'll be better known. Meanwhile, he isn't homeless at all.

His home is the wide-open spaces, whether it's for hunting down deer or courses.

You get the feeling he'd be happy to sleep on courses he designs. Maybe he has, and probably in a bunker he's hewn by hand.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 05:33:47 PM by Jeff_Mingay »
jeffmingay.com

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2005, 05:47:01 PM »
So you're still playing in the sand box, are you Jeff....
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2005, 05:50:24 PM »
I promise I'll stop posting after this but the wine is definately kicking in. When I saw the title of this post I thought "Wow Whittgenstein on GCA, this group is really getting deep"

Philosopher's Drinking Song

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant who was very rarely stable.
Heideggar, Heideggar was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel.
And Whittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nieizsche couldn't teach 'ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, after half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whiskey every day!
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
And Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
"I drink, therefore I am."
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.



 ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2005, 06:09:05 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2005, 06:04:53 PM »
Lorne pens an article in today's Globe and Mail about Rod Whitman...

Architect Whitman deserves more recognition
   
    By LORNE RUBENSTEIN Thursday, December 15, 2005

You won't find Rod Whitman's name on a list of today's acclaimed golf course architects.

But the Albertan ought to be at the head of any ranking of least-known architects who should be well known.

Whitman doesn't market himself, though, and you have to make an effort to get to his courses. (I've not visited any myself, yet. But pictures, his words and accolades from others tell of an architect whose work is worth exploring.)



I guess I'm being a dick but how do you get a write up in a major publication by a major writer without having personally seen any of the guy's work.  Can you imagine Frank Rich doing a broadway review based on hearsay and never attending the production. Maybe he has.  Some of this stuff is just incomprehensible.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2005, 06:10:00 PM »
Kelly:

Knowing the right people counts for a lot, and Lorne is good friends with Richard Zokol.  

However, Lorne's article was based on his interview and talked about two future projects.  He did not write any second-hand accounts of any of the courses he hasn't seen and try to pass them off as his own, which I have seen done many times in the major golf magazines ... it's pretty easy to tell when they are copying from previous sources.  You should see how many people have written about Cape Kidnappers without actually going to New Zealand!

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2005, 06:17:04 PM »
Tom,

You make a fair point.  However, if it interests you that much to use valuable space to write about it about it then why wouldn't you personally go experience the work.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2005, 08:03:01 PM »
although the guy admits it up fron, I have to agree with Kelly...the guy can't go and see AT LEAST ONE of his courses first??

kind of like a restaurant critic recommending a place without having been there
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

A_Clay_Man

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2005, 08:07:42 PM »
Considering it is December and this is Canada, I believe license should be given.

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2005, 08:09:21 PM »
Kelly: That's an interesting point. I don't actually know why Lorne hasn't gone out to see Whitman's work -- since you can catch both of his Canadian courses easily on one trip.
All I can say is that when I wrote about Whitman for my paper, I met him off the 17th hole at Blackhawk and we had a couple of beers in the clubhouse. And my article did include descriptions of his work.
In Lorne's defence, a LOT of people have said great things about Whitman's work, and he's safe in doing so as well. And Rubenstein has caddied for Zokol, which likely has something to do with the article's placement...
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2005, 07:42:18 AM »
Here, I'll bring this back up so Jeff gets some mileage from his post.

Robert I appreciate your approach, and I would agree that the concensus has been that Rod's work is spectacular, however we have heard this before about courses and in due time they tend to fall off the map after closer scrutiny, it can happen to any of us, so still getting out and experiencing what it is you are writing about seems appropriate.  

Adam I would think sometimes these articles are scheduled ahead of time therefore the necessary research can be done during decent weather.  I doubt he decided to write this article the morning before and got caught by the weather.  

ForkaB

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2005, 08:06:11 AM »
I'm with Kelly.

Lorne's a Canadian, eh?  In his whatever #f of years of life he's never been to a Whitman course, but now he decides to write about Whitman, and he's Zokol's bosom buddy?  Smells like a piece of 3-day old Newfoundland haddock haggis to me...... :)

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2005, 08:12:34 AM »
Guess what guys? Probably isn't a bad thing that he wrote about Whitman. Might even help Rod get more work. He could have spent his time writing about the new Fazio course in Toronto, but he decided to write about something a little more off beat. Let's be clear: He could have easily written around the fact he hasn't seen Whit's two courses -- but at least he was honest as a point of disclosure.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

A_Clay_Man

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2005, 08:21:49 AM »
Kelly- That may be true, but it does not mitigate the state of journalism today. The numbers in that industry are shrinking faster than a violet in a whorehouse. So, expectations of travelling the globe, for a article of ths nature, seems, a bit unrealistic.  I can understand your frustration, but do you think the reader (other than GCA's) will give care? Especially, since Lorne makes no attempt to hide his inexperience on Whittman.

As someone who has never seen a Whttman course either, I am intrigued for the sole reason that Ben has hired him. Knowing Ben, and his extensive exposure to many of the world's great venues, I'd say Rod has oodles of talent and from reading this article, I'd say he has a down to earth humility, too.

But, Maybe I should wait to meet the man, to think that?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2005, 10:11:24 AM by Adam Clayman »

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2005, 08:35:09 AM »
Adam,

Apparently Rod's work is right there in Lorne's neighborhood.  No one is asking him to travel the globe.  But as Tom Doak points out there ar eplenty of golf writers who are willing to write about a course based upon other reports, so yes you are right it must be unreasonable to think these guys can travel around to all these courses, but if you can't do that then don't devote valuable print space to something you can't or don't want to go see.  maybe that is part of the reason these magazines and papers are suffering , they just figured we are all dumb enough to read their articles and believe they are traveling all over the world for us.  

No, Adam you don't have to reserve judgement on him until you meet him, but then again you are not writing for a major news organization so your requirements for passing judgement are far less than for a professional writer.  I think the artilce could have been a lot more intriguing if he could have incorporated his personal experiences of Rod's work  I don't think that is asking too much.  If it is then the sooner these mags and newspapers who practice this type of journalism go away the better for the reading public.  In fact it seems all the better that the local publications publish these types of stories because then the writer can visit the courses extensively and probably write a much more compelling story, then some national or international writer.  As the saying goes all politics is local, maybe the same should apply to journalism in relation to golf courses, because really for 99% of the golf courses, local press is probably far more important to their promotion and business than some article in Golfweek that may cuase a spike in interest but very soon is forgotten.  

If the point is to help promote an unknown architect that deserves more recognition then great.  If you are going to disclose that you have not visited his work then disclose that you are writing a piece of advertising, and disclose that you are close, personal friends with the owners of the other projects.  I am sympathetic with Robert's point that in the end if it helps a guy like Rod who is doing great work then no harm, that's great, that part of it is not disturbing.  I don't know Rod and I can only speculate about his work but from what I have read it sounds like the kind of work I would support nd I do think we are in a contest between competing styles of architecture, you know like what is said in the present political world, we are in a culture war and the same could be said for golf course architecture, there definately is a divide in the type of architecture that we all think should be promoted and the type of architecture that we think should be criticised, every design profession ahs those debates, and there are artists who band together to promote a particular style of architecture or literture or music, I can relate to that type of view which I think is what Robert is saying.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2005, 08:43:08 AM by Kelly Blake Moran »

ForkaB

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2005, 08:38:49 AM »
I promise I'll stop posting after this but the wine is definately kicking in. When I saw the title of this post I thought "Wow Whittgenstein on GCA, this group is really getting deep"

Philosopher's Drinking Song

Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant who was very rarely stable.
Heideggar, Heideggar was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel.
And Whittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nieizsche couldn't teach 'ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, after half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away, half a crate of whiskey every day!
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
And Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart:
"I drink, therefore I am."
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.



 ;D ;D ;D


Great stuff, Tony!

What's the tune?

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2005, 08:42:12 AM »

 As the saying goes all politics is local, maybe the same should apply to journalism in relation to golf courses, because really for 99% of the golf courses, local press is probably far more important to their promotion and business than some article in Golfweek that may cuase a spike in interest but very soon is forgotten.  

KBM,
No truer statement on this website than the above.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2005, 09:34:11 AM »
Hey guys: Don't take this the wrong way, but you clearly have no sense of how the Canadian golf business functions, especially when it comes to Lorne. He's arguably, outside of Mike Weir, the most powerful voice in the industry in Canada. Remember that no one had spoken of Highlands Links for years previous to Lorne promoting the course in the mid-1990s, and he was a big factor in getting the government to put money into the property.
I know from my experience, and I don't have the readership that Lorne does, that my articles can have an influence on a golf course and the public's perception of it. And Lorne's article is going to have a far larger impact than say the Edmonton Journal.
That said, I don't know why Rubenstein didn't go out to Alberta. I did -- as I mentioned -- and I wrote a story about Whitman more than a year ago. It is on my blog, if you'd like to check it out. But Canada is a big country and it does take a lot of effort to travel to see something like Blackhawk if you have no other reason to be there.
The other thing to consider is that getting editors interested in articles about golf architects and courses is about as easy as getting a raise out of a managing editor these days. So at the very least Lorne got the story in the paper....
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Matt_Ward

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2005, 09:47:17 AM »
Kelly:

You are 100000000% on target here.

There is really no reason why appropriate due diligence cannot be taken by any writer of any facility / architect.

Stating upfront the nature of the relationships and the context in which said article was created is also worth disclosing.

To simply lob an opinion from the cheap seats without actually seeing / playing the course(s) in question is truly lazy at best and a major disservice to the architect and reader at worst.

Taking short cuts when preparing an article on what someone is doing in the field only serves to raise the angst that many architects feel today -- particularly when their work is often ignored by those who write about the game and courses.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2005, 10:29:36 AM »
I thought the sources he quotes about Rod's work, was the crux of the subtext.

In other words, those savvy Canadians who are aware of Ben Crenshaw's design philosophy, and, who might respect him as a source, can plan for next summers gofing trips by seeking out Rod's work.

As far as media people using "friends" as subjects in a piece, it's nothing new, and is probably quite common.  

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2005, 10:44:11 AM »
Matt: I'm sure you've never written about or referenced anything you haven't seen in an article, right?

RT
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Matt_Ward

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2005, 11:43:55 AM »
Robert:

I don't comment on courses / architects unless I have sampled them personally. I also make it a point not to extrapolate a "fixed" position on any architect until I have played a good cross section of courses within that person'a portfolio. Others may do it a different way but I don't feel the reader benefits from such situations -- ever.

Simply listing information is one thing -- saying with total clarity that "x" course(s) or "x" architect is to be saluted without a direct connection is nothing more than totally disconnected journalism.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2005, 12:11:01 PM »
Matt-
Disconnected Journalism?

Could you highlight where Lorne touted one of Rod's courses with his own opinion?

Rihc- Bossom buddies? How about, he caddied for the guy?


ForkaB

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2005, 12:34:10 PM »
Adam

How about both? :D  Lighten up Buckaroo, after all, it's only a bloody game.... ;)

A_Clay_Man

Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2005, 12:58:58 PM »
Adam

How about both? :D  Lighten up Buckaroo, after all, it's only a bloody game.... ;)

rihc- I didn't intend any immflamation thrown in your direction, just clarifying what the article said.


Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rubenstein on Whitman
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2005, 01:11:25 PM »
Lorne Rubenstein, Rod Whitman and Ben Dewar are three of the small group of people who are making a great contribution to the enjoyment and betterment of golf. You guys have lost your marbles if you think that Lorne's making others aware of Rod and his project with Ben is anything but well intentioned, honest and good for all of us.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back