[Mike Hendren]

Bob Crosby's mention of Cuscowilla on the best first hole thread reminded me of this article - an interesting piece of architectural analysis:

http://www.travelgolf.com/departments/editorials/rethinking-strategy-345.htm

Mike

[BCrosby]

Bogey -

Interesting article. As you might guess, I don't think it's a reach to compare the 1st at Cuscowilla to the 17th at NGLA or to any other great par 4.

Derek's larger point is interesting too, though the topic has been disussed here at GCA many times. Can the design strategies at the 1st at Cusco or the 17th at NGLA be overwhelmed by the staggering distances people hit it these days?

Abso - freakin' - lutely.

But I'm not sure Derek's suggested solutions to the problem are any better than solutions thrown out in several threads here at GCA. In fact, I'm not sure I've seen or heard a good architectural solution at all. (If you attack the problem from the equipment side, however, lots of solutions present themselves.)

Thanks for pointing out the article. I had seen it a while ago and had forgotten about it. (BTW, Duncan is pretty good.)

Bob  

[Jason Blasberg]

What a great article.  I immediately thought of #1 at Cuscowilla with the best first holes thread but considering I'm a bit of a homer with that course I figured I'd not mention it.  

Since it's been raised, however,  , to me, it's an awesome opener that does tell the player they're in for a treat for the rest of the way too.

Derek's point about length is valid, but I would say over stated vis-a-vis C #1 for all but the most accurate or extremely long drivers.  Unless you've got a perfect draw driver in your bag you've got to challenge those bunkers which are not an automatic carry from the back tee unless the ball is hit near 100%.  Plus, it's the first tee shot of the day so that's always in your head.  

Also, for those long hitters with a power fade or cut, the line of play you must take with driver is basically the right edge of the high grass down the left.  For the first driver of the day aiming it in the junk knowing that a pull is an automatic double bogey isin't the easiest of tee shots.  

Then if the pin is back right it's a knee knocker of a wedge shot anyway unless you really kill it and have 50 or less yards into the green, and even at that you can't see the back edge of the green and you know it runs away from you long so it's difficult to get it close.  

Sadly, I don't have a yardage book so I'm not 100% sure of the carry from the tips but I have heard of a couple really big hitters driving or nearly driving the 1st green which is absurd length that very little can defend against, but at that distance it's just as easy to block it right through the fairway in the trees with no shot to the hold the green for your second.    

[john_stiles]

Played in the Cusco 4 ball invitational this year, with perhaps the eventual winners (they had a very good lead after first two rounds).  We may have spurred them on, as they certainly didn't want to lose to the old guys.

Anyway, they were young college players, and certainly could bomb the drive.

The 1st green, with the hole locations for the tournament, provided pretty difficult half wedges for those long drivers.

We were hitting 8 iron or 9, having to skirt the bunker.

However, those young guys didn't have as large an advantage at that first hole, as they subsequently did on #2,  #6, #9, #10, #13, #14, #15, and #18.

The first green is very diabolical at Cusco, and difficult to 'birdie'.  It reminds me of the seemingly gentle opening hole at Chechessee Creek (also C&C) where the approach becomes also very difficult due the green setting and internal contours.

Jason,

For a good player, or good wedge player, I think that the 50 yard shot to the back pin would be very difficult.  I would want to be back closer to a full or 3/4 club.  

We were inside the young guns, and  local guns at that, both days. The short shot was not their strength at #1, in the first two rounds.

I'm sure some of the others could almost reach the 1st but they didn't beat the yound guys we played the first two days.

[Jason Topp]

I think this excerpted analysis from the article is very perceptive and provides great insight into the problem with classic bunker on the inside corner of a dogleg with a green opening up from that direction strategic design:


"The premise for change is that egregious length already offers its own reward - hitting a much shorter club. Offering a simpler approach shot on top of hitting the shorter club tilts the scales disproportionately. A new strategic model would not consistently reward pure length with easy follow-ups but would instead encourage the player to consider alternative angles of approach, often using a longer club." http://www.travelgolf.com/departments/editorials/rethinking-strategy-345.htm


In other words, the choice is a shorter more difficult shot vs. a longer shot to a more receptive green.  

I think these types of holes are more interesting on a daily basis, more likely to hold up against advancing length, and more interesting for the shorter hitter because the advantage of length is reduced, rather than increased by the design of the hole.

[Tyler Kearns]

In other words, the choice is a shorter more difficult shot vs. a longer shot to a more receptive green.  

I thought I read somewhere that Pete Dye was starting to do this more and more in an effort to curb the advantage gained by long-hitters. Any examples of this in his work?

TK

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