News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
GROSSE ILE G&CC: A Ross Gem In The Detroit River New
« on: October 29, 2005, 01:39:33 AM »
One of a trio of courses on Grosse Ile, an island in the middle of the Detroit River approximately 15 miles south of Hart Plaza, Grosse Ile G&CC is a 1920 Donald Ross design born from the Grosse Ile Casino Association.  The principle founding figure of Grosse Ile was John Kelsey, a summer resident of the island, founder of the Kelsey Wheel Company, co-founder of Detroit Athletic Club and one time part owner of the Detroit Tigers.

Taking two years to construct under the guidance of William Connellan (who I believe was Grosse Ile's first greenkeeper), much of the course essentially required capping with a mix of loam, cinders and sand.  The course features mainly plateau greens with two valleys running north-south through the property.  Many holes bisect the valleys at skewed angles and this is what creates much of the interest for tee to green play.  Additionally, the greens are nothing short of outstanding.  Some have severe internal contours with ridges and pimples and some have fall-away fronts which feed back down to the valleys. Indeed, given modern green speeds, #s 9 & 10 were deemed a bit unruly and their fronts were raised.   

The original Ross routing is in place, but the hole numbers have changed to accommodate the rebuilding of the clubhouse after a fire in 1947. The fire also necessitated selling off land to the immediate west side of Meridian which was originally planned as extra nine holes for what was to be a real estate/golf scheme; these holes were never built.  The new course sequence left five holes and the house on the north side of Bellevue Rd and thirteen holes on the south side.

While Grosse Ile is overwhelmingly about serving its members first and foremost, the club has hosted a few prestigous events. Among these were the 66th Western Amateur Golf Championship played during a torrid August heat wave in 1968.  That tournament attracted 180 of the nation's finest amateur players and was won by Rik Massengale of Texas, who soon after joined the PGA tour.  The club also hosted the Michigan Amateur in 2004.  Given his experience with the greens, it was not a great surprise that Grosse Ile member Jeff Cuzzort took home the trophy.  Shortly thereafter, Mr Cuzzort turned professional. 

The club can be proudest for hosting Michigan's oldest Invitational. Originated in 1937, The Grosse Ile Invitational can number several famous golfers among its competitors; these include Arnold Palmer, Chuck Kocsis (first winner), Chick Harbert, Walter Burkemo and Frank Stranahan.  No mention of the Invitational or the club can be made without discussing Glenn Johnson. Johnson partnered four separate golfers in winning the Invitational five times during three decades.  This, however, is only a mere sampling of his exploits.  Fifteen time club champion, Johnson also won the Michigan Amateur on five occasions.  In later years he went on to have a successful senior career including the low amateur honours at the 1981 US Senior Open held at Oakland Hills.   

In typical Ross fashion the opener is a short par 4 which plays downhill for the drive, then uphill for the approach.  The green is of the fall-away type and gives the golfer an accurate introduction as to what he shall face with the flat stick.  Evidence of Detroit's once mighty industrial back bone looms in the background.  The Trenton Channel Power Plant is a coal fired station built in 1949 and owned by Detroit Edison, a subsidary of DTE Energy.


#2 turns back on the first and plays from a high tee into a valley, then uphill for the second.  For most, the approach is blind to a tricky green with oob just beyond. One can see that despite some tree work Grosse Ile still requires additonal tree removal to allow the design to play as Ross envisioned some 90 years ago. 


The three-shotter third once again turns on the previous hole.  The drive is a bit troublesome due to the entire length of the hole playing along the Grosse Ile Parkway.  The hole is reachable in two, but it may pay to lay-up to an advantagous spot for a short approach.


The first par 3 is fairly long and can play much longer into a southerly breeze.  In the past few years there has been work to push the rough away from the greens and create more green space.  Unfortunately, despite Grosse Ile being a wonderful course to walk, the tee to green approach with the cart paths distracts the eye from the glorious architecture.  We now cross Bellevue Road for the fifth hole, a shortish par 4. This is the first hole to feature a double valley fairway broken up by a high ridge fairway and green.  The player must decide if it is best to stay on top of the hill for the drive or try to drive to the flat over the hill.  Grosse Ile's design is very clever in using this style of architecture which helps keep the greens and some part of the fairways dry during wet weather. One would think this characteristic would get over-played, but Ross mixes up the shot requirements enough to keep each hole distinctive.  The green for this hole is one of the more outlandish on the course as it features a hump back which splits the green in two.  It can often times be better to miss short and on the correct side of the hump rather than try to putt over the hump. 

The following hole, a par 3, also highlights a hump back green, but not to the degree of the 5th. 


#7 doglegs left between sentinel trees.  Like the 4th, this hole can often play longer than the yardage suggests.  The green is essentially at grade level, but this in no way suggests it will be a dull affair. 


The 8th is a shortish three-shotter harangued by well placed bunkers in the driving and lay-up zones.


After re-crossing Bellevue Rd, the ninth heads back toward the clubhouse.  As on #5, the golfer must decide on his length of drive strategy.  The difference between approaching from the hill or the flat is quite marked. 


The entire back nine is located on the other side of Bellevue Road and opens with perhaps the best hole on the course.  The drive looks innocent enough down a fairway which appears to be flat...until one reaches an area approximately 175 yards from the green.  The hole then dives through a valley then up to meet a plateau green somewhat stepped into a mildly rising hill.  The inadequacy of the bunkering is fully evident and helps to underscore how tree clearing can bring a hole to life.   


Behind the green showing the severity of slope down to the valley. 


#11 is a severe dogleg left with bunkers on the corner.  Trees just ahead and left of the tee compromise the playing nature of this hole.  There are also trees on the right which block a great view of the 14th hole.  A lovely straight away short par 4, the 12th moves  through a few valleys deep enough to create a blind approach.  The green slopes quite severely from back to front making any over hit approach a dicey affair.


The short 13th is distinguished by one of the most severe back to front greens I have played.  The rocks were placed near the water to stop putts from watery graves.  Another terrific short par 4, #14 legs to the right with an old oak guarding the left side of the landing area.  A good drive is right of the tree and often leaves a wedge approach to an uphill green.  A lot of trees have been cleared out down the right.


Behind the green.


Playing to a plateau fairway, the 15th green is distinguished from the 9th due to the green sitting much lower.




The next hole has long been one of my favourites at Grosse Ile.  As is so often the case, the drive plays out over a hill and if one is long enough he can reach the bottom for a flat lie.  However, what sets the 16th apart is the green.  It runs away from the fairway and has a pimple in its middle.


The best three shotter was saved for the penultimate hole.  Like nos 3 and 8, the 17th is reachable in two, but the drive and approach must be accurate.  The final hole is unsual as it is a long par 3 some 240 yards in length.  The hole works well as a closer because the green is probably the least undulating on the course. 

I think it is fair to say that the greens are outstanding and the movement of the fairways always keeps players mentally engaged.  In other words, the bones of a terrific course are in place.  If more trees were removed, the cart paths sympathetically placed and most importantly, a proper bunker scheme employed, I think Grosse Ile would be greatly enhanced.  It is clear Ross thought Grosse Ile was a signifcant addition to his portfolio because the course was included in his 1930 booklet, Partial List of Prominent Courses.







Ciao
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 06:06:17 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2005, 01:57:26 AM »
Sean,

Great pictures, and an even more interesting looking golf course. Certainly a hidden gem, and now on my radar screen :).

Thanks for posting.

TK

Mark Studer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2005, 09:45:45 AM »
Sean- thanks for posting the pictures.  I  had the pleasure of playing Grosse Ile the summer that the US-am was conducted at Oakland Hills(I think 2002).  That same trip, I also played Bloomfield Hills, Barton Hills (with work by Arthur Hills), and Franklin Hills.  Grosse Ile and Franklin Hills  had , by far , the most Donlad Ross left...including Oakland Hills.   We encouraged the club president and sup't to do a masterplan that  the design and their membership deserved . Has the club had  any progress in putting together a plan?  I agree that it has TREMENDOUS potential. The putting surfaces are superb as are the changes in elevation, some typical Ross elevated   tees to lower fairways to elevated greens.
The First Tee:Golf Lessons/Life Lessons

Mike Boehm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2005, 10:12:37 AM »
Sean -

Thank you for posting the pics.  I am actually playing out at Grosse Ile this afternoon - looking even more forward to it now.

Mark -

What were your thoughts of Bloomfield Hills CC when you played it?

Also, I am not sure if Grosse Ile has done any restoration work, but I know Franklin Hills has.  The golf association of Michigan did a brief article on it.

http://www.gam.org/magazine/magazine.asp?IssueID=12&page=95

Mike

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2005, 10:26:59 AM »
Mark

To date, there has been no master plan.  Though, many trees have come down (as is evident by the photos) because of storms and removal.  The course plays much better for the lack of trees.  

I don't thinK cart paths will be dealt with in the near future.  Though the club has fixed the few very obvious cart path monstrosities.  

I don't see bunkering being improved either.  Though to be honest, I am not convinced the bunkering was devilish on the original plan.  However, that is not to say that a few improvements couldn't be made.  

The club has come a long way in recent years with less watering, better drainage and improved clubhouse.  I suspect that if the club can get over this slump in membership, that good things can continue to happen.  

On a different note.  My father has been a member of Grosse Ile for near on 40 years.  He has never been a good player, just a social and business player.  Recently he has developed a disease which has rendered him virtually blind.  He can no longer drive.  To read he needs a massive magnifying glass which allows access to the printed page for a few minutes at a time before a headache sets in.  He can't see the hole when he putts!  He can't even see his ball in shade when he is trying to hit it.  He says that he tries to hit the darkest spot.  

He takes all this graciously.  When we played on Wednesday he said something that shot right through me.  I asked him how enjoys the game these days.  He replied that everything was more or less as before except for one thing.  He no longer enjoys the game properly because he can't watch his partners play.  This for him was the great part of the game.   He had no love lost for his own ball.  I found this revelation amazing.  After 30 years of playing with the big guy and he spills the beans.  Truly remarkable.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Scott Witter

Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2005, 10:36:49 AM »
Sean,

I am curious how you and others who have played the course or looked at the photo of the first hole feel about the trees blocking play into and out of, the bunkers.  I my minds eye, this opening would be much more inviting if I could see and experience the hole/bunkers without the trees.  I think they still need more tree management.

All in all, the bunkers appear at least to be in very good condition, though many have clearly lost much of their luster and challenge.  Some even seem to be a bit out of character, the bunker to the right of the 5th green for example, with most and these may have been rebuilt internally?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2005, 10:54:14 AM »
Scott

I wouldn't object to the trees right and short of the 1st green disappearing.  Though it must be said there is plenty of room for a layup and still have a short iron in.  

As for the 5th, I have long advocated removing all the bunkers on this hole.  Let the magnificent green complex speak for itself.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2005, 11:16:01 AM »
Great pictures Sean. Those greens seem to sit beautifully into the landscape.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2005, 12:29:27 PM »
Sean:  Thanks for the pictures.  I fly over that place all the time when circling Detroit, but it's a bit high up to see the green contours.

Bruce Hepner did some consulting at Grosse Ile for a while, and really thought a lot of it, but then a different green chairman decided to go his own way.  Actually the same thing happened at Franklin Hills ... we did a bunch of consulting there for practically nothing and the superintendent took a lot of the credit, then when he left they hired Ron Prichard to "restore" it.

Scott is right, there are a lot too many trees which the club has resisted thinning out.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 05:06:47 PM »
Tom

I am not surprised that the powers that be are reluctant to remove trees.  The club had a tree charge for donkeys years, now they want to rip loads out.  Memberships tend to get a bit annoyed when their money is thrown away.  Get out and play the course, you may find yourself smiling on a hole or two.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 07:29:25 PM »
I'm not as enamored with Grosse Ile as some of you. It is "grossely" over treed. They are actually in the process of adding more trees. A map in the locker room on my last visit had at least 50 trees planned for addition.
It could be worth a trip, now I'd only recommend bringing your putter.
Other than a lack of understanding in what they could have, it is a fun membership with a wonderful staff in Jordan and the "Vat".

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2005, 05:05:28 AM »
Nice pictures Sean! I like your Dad's comment - not the way I look at my round of golf, but maybe you can only appreciate his perspective when you have lost the ability to appreciate what your partners are up to.

Various people on this thread have commented on the course having too many trees. Can someone talk me through this please? When I look at the photos, I can see in the first one that the trees are blocking out the greenside bunkers -but other than that, I can't really see why it is so obviously "over-treed".

Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 08:01:22 AM »
Phillip,
It could be worse. I'd guess that the membership views trees as a defense for lack of length. Many of the new plantings are in areas that IMHO would be better served with bunkering. Just a difference in opinion, I'd prefer a wider more bunkered look. They obviously are after a different look.
IMHO
#1 you noted the evergreens on the left, it's also heavily treed on the right. You can't see a poor cart placment through the fairway landing area and next to the bunker on the right.
#2 is pinched with trees on the left and right on what would be a wonderful tee shot with a more opened look and some hillside bunkering.
#3 and #4 no problems except for a landscape tree left on #3 fairway.
#5 tree encroachment left and just through the fairway on the right (the green is all world)
#7 left and right
I think you get the point.
Sean has taken some excellent pictures that do show the excellent greens. I wish they would get rid of some of the shadows that are on the greens.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2005, 08:29:56 AM »
In general I agree with WAE.  However, on almost every hole the trees do not have to be taken on.  #s 2, 5, 10 and 11 are the exception on the entire course.  On two of these holes, #s 5 and 10, I think the trees are appropriate.  They force the player to attack the greens from the proper angles or face a world of hurt when the putter is in their hands.  #5 especially needs the trees on the left.  Without them, the flat bellies would take direct aim at the green.  Now they are forced to shape the ball or layup to the top of the hill.  #2 I would like to see cleared out except for the lovely tree on the left of the fairway.  #11 I would like to see the trees removed from the tee area.  These trees limit options off the tee.  Other than these four holes, I think the trees are a non-issue other than aesthetically.  A matter of opinion when you get right down to it.  There is plenty of room to open the shoulders.  

Two larger issues for me are the bunkering and watering (especially watering).  For the most part the bunkers are merely functional with very little aesthetic value.  I am not sure what could be done to smarten them up at a reasonable cost.  As for watering, I think the club is turning the corner.  Last week the course was rolling ok (much better than The Road and Mid Pines and not quite as well as Pine Needles), it could be better, but compared to past years, this was a major improvement.

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2005, 10:10:24 AM »
Thanks for your comments WAE (can't you give us a name to responde to :)

I was genuinely curious  - I am a member at a very heavily wooded course and Grosse Ille certainly appears a lot less claustrophobic.

 I suppose what I really don't like is when the trees are full of impenetrable undergrowth beneath them. GI at least does not appear to suffer from that problem, but I take the point that in some cases the trees may narrow options.

It had never occurred to me that presence of shadows might be seen as a reason for getting rid of some trees. I know too much shadow is bad for growth, but never occurred to me to object on aesthetic grounds,  but I suppose it is as good a reason as any other. ;)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2005, 10:36:18 AM »
Philip

At this time of year in Michigan, any tree casts a long shadow.  As far as I know, Grosse Ile has never had problems keeping the greens in anything less than excellent condition.  As I stated earlier, Pine Needles, Mid Pines and The Road all had greens that were inferior in conditioning and contouring to Grosse Ile.  Mind you, it isn't quite fair to compare resort/public courses to a private course as the number of rounds played on Pine Needles is probably four times as much as Grosse Ile.  Still, I was quite surprised by the conditioning as NC is at least 6 weeks behind Michigan in the approach of their respective winters.  

Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

john_stiles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Grosse Ile pics
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2005, 05:56:05 PM »
I have not played/visited.

Still,  bunkering looks okay, but the bunkers have a visual appearance of being a modern rossinization.

Not that you can tell anything from pictures. :)

Dan Dingman

Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 09:52:29 AM »
Sean,

I encourage you to stop by Grosse Ile next time you are back in the States. I met your father last week and we had a nice conversation about you and your passion for golf course Architecture - Very nice man!

I came on board as the Superintendent in Sept. 2007 and we have made great strides in bringing back many of the Ross features. Tree removal, fairway widening, and green expansion has been our focus. Grosse Ile is a great course with enormous potential. It sure is a pleasure to come to work everyday.

Look me up next time you are in the area. I know you grew up here and I would enjoy looking at the golf course with you.

Take care

DD

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 05:53:23 PM »
Dan Dingman,

Great to see you posting on GCA.

Wow I can't wait to see your place in a couple of weeks.

Jon Heise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 08:32:46 PM »
Hi Dan.  Good to see more Downriver people on GCA! ;D

I'm very much looking forward to my visit to GI next month.  How are those greens rolling?
I still like Greywalls better.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2009, 03:29:41 AM »
Sean,

I encourage you to stop by Grosse Ile next time you are back in the States. I met your father last week and we had a nice conversation about you and your passion for golf course Architecture - Very nice man!

I came on board as the Superintendent in Sept. 2007 and we have made great strides in bringing back many of the Ross features. Tree removal, fairway widening, and green expansion has been our focus. Grosse Ile is a great course with enormous potential. It sure is a pleasure to come to work everyday.

Look me up next time you are in the area. I know you grew up here and I would enjoy looking at the golf course with you.

Take care

Dan

Its always good to hear about improvements to the course.  Hopefully, some of the grand old trees will remain in place and the course is kept drier.  I look forward to stopping in when I next visit as I love the place.  My father no longer is a playing member, I sometimes think he only hung on for so long because I like playing the course when in town.  Keep yer head down and work hard!

Ciao 
DD
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2009, 05:56:50 PM »
Growing up in Windsor, Ontario (Essex G&CC), I played Grosse Ile a couple times. Both times I left thinking the course has enormous potential too.

Your report sounds very encouraging, Dan. Good luck with pushing things even futher. 

I'm on the road a lot during the summer, but look forward to the possibility of stopping in to see Grosse Ile again some time in the near future, when I'm back in Windsor.

I've been meaning to get to Birmingham CC, too... as you know, Brad!

 
jeffmingay.com

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2009, 11:31:35 AM »
Great pics! I am playing it on 8/24, can't wait!
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 11:14:56 AM »
Played Grosse Ile this week with the superintendent Dan Dingman, and two other superintendents: Chris Andrejicka of Essex, and John Cooney of Tam O Shanter.

Wow what an incredible route over 260 acres! Wonderful seperation between holes, and some really cool turbo-boosts off the rolling terrain. The greens there are just incredible. I'm certain that they are all untampered originals. I'll post a few pics, but they just do not capture the movement. Note on the pictures that Dan Dingman has been moving the mowing lines out to bring a lot of the green back in to play, to where you really get to see some wonderful response of the ball to the contours, and some nice approach shot possibilities.

I also attached a close fairway photo to show how nice and dry and firm it was playing. What a place!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 11:38:04 AM by Bradley Anderson »

Dan Dingman

Re: GROSSE ILE: A Ross Gem
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2009, 07:25:40 AM »
Thanks Brad! I had a great time and it was a pleasure having my peers down to see Grosse Ile. I will get a few pictures up under a new thread when I get a chance. You have been a wonderful addition to the Detroit area!

DD