Foursome play

[Tim Liddy]

This subject has probably already been discussed in the past, but how about foursome play as good medicine to cure the 5 hour round of golf?  It is fun, quick to play, very social and reduces the wear on the golf course. I wonder why it has not gained popularity in the US?

[THuckaby2]

Tim:  ever try to set up a tournament using this format?  It's like pulling teeth.  Not only are most American golfers slavishly tied to their individual score, but tell them they only get to hit half the shots and they want half their green fees back.

Unfortunately that is the reality here.

This might work at some private clubs with the right mindset, but that's it.

Which is kinda sad.. because foursomes is very fun.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

I wonder why it has not gained popularity in the US?

I'm sure there are many reasons. One obvious reason is that an alternate shot match does not produce a medal score for each partner individually. For that reason alone the idea would be a complete non-starter in this country.

[JohnV]

Because people pay money to play golf and want to get their money's worth and they feel they can only get it by playing all the shots.  It is a shame because foursomes is fun to play.

The other problem is that if you are wanting to play foursomes and you aren' the first group out, you're going to be waiting all day so why do it?

[JohnV]

Tom, we have two foursomes events on our schedule and they are very popular.  Unfortunately nobody else is willing to try to have them.

[Brent Hutto]

If I had a chance to join a club or play at a public course that reserved one day a week for foursomes I'd start playing there tomorrow. It would not be my choice to play every round but it's an entirely different kind of match that is very much fun to play.

[Bob_Huntley]

Tim.

Because guys don't like paying "$you name it" to hit twenty shots.

Bob

[BCrosby]

At Sandwich, you either play twosomes or alternate shot foursomes. One day a week is reserved for (what us Americans call) foursomes.

I had never seen that before. But it works. We played 36 holes in a little over six hours. Green fees were not a problem because your fee was for all day.

Bob

[Mike_Golden]

Foursomes may be fun but, if you're only going to play 18 holes, it's a waste of time.  I have no problem with it as the second round of the day on the same course.  Also, if you have partners of significantly different skill levels it really makes the day difficult.

This may be GCA politically incorrect but I doubt that anyone could really disagree with me if they thought about it for a minute.  It's a tradition in the UK and many people grew up this way so that's why it works there.

[Dan Herrmann]

We had a 9-hole foursome as part of our member-member, and I was a bit unhappy with my teammate.  I asked him if he wanted to play evens or odds, so he lets me know about a complex formula he worked out that showed that he should be playing evens.

Honestlly, I couldn't care either way, so I happily agreed.

Get to #10 - he hits it OB (which is actually very difficult to do at French Creek).  I hit fine on #11.  He hits it OB on #12 (again - pretty difficult to do, especially to the right if you've ever been there).

Finally, on #14 he hits it 4 inches from OB and we have his first tee shot that we can use (sort of).  #16 was a fine tee shot, but #18 was in the fescue.

There's a reason they call these the 'divorce open'  

I'm not sure what's worse - a better ball partner that picks up on half the holes, or a foursome partner that can't keep the ball on the golf course  

[JohnV]

One of the fun things about the WPGA's foursomes championships is that they are 36 holes in one day and whoever tees off on the odd holes in the morning must tee off on the even ones in the afternoon.  That way everyone gets to experience the entire course.

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob Crosby,

Sandwich and Muirfield are of the same ilk. But why? Because it was always thus.

Admittedly one can get in thirty six holes on shortened winter days, but seriously, what percentage of players out of our fifteen hundred contributors, would want these formats day in day out for the next forty years?

Some of my best days are playing in a fourball where I can meet new people and enjoy watching the skills of Mucci, Benham, Stewart, Morrissett with his hickories, Regan putting from an eighth of a mile from off the green and the incomparable Huckaby. I have played in the Calcutta Cup for ages and I must say that once a year is enough.

Bob

[Jason Topp]

I have really enjoyed foursomes play on the few occassions where I have done it.  The problem for me, which is definitely an American mindset, is that if I am going to spend time on the course, I like to know my score.  

I also think you need to have a certain level of competence to play in such an event, and enjoy the pressure of having to put your partner in play.  Thus, the format eliminates a lot of people as potential participants.

I understand there is a one day 36 foursomes event in town that is great fun.  Rounds are completed in less than 3 hours.  I have wanted to play in it for some time but have always had a conflict.  Sounds a lot better than the typical charity scramble.

[John Foley]

Me and a regular foursome that I play w/ started this over the summer. The times we get together are 36/day and we started doing the second 18 as foursomes.

All I can say, the masses don't know what they are missing. It is a blast!

[THuckaby2]

I suppose I ought to clarify my feelings here:  I too wouldn't want a steady diet of nothing but foursomes.  Heck at some point one has to be fully responsible for his own golf actions.  But as a change of pace - and particularly as the second 18 in a 36 hole day on the same course - well it is a lot of fun.   For me the fun also works both ways - if I am paired with a better player, well then heck I get to hit from places I always dreamed of reaching.  If it's the other way around, well I enjoy the challenge and the hero (and shit-giving) potential that the game allows.

And I appreciate the "incomparable" adjective, Bob.  Of course even though I know what that really means, I'm going to choose to interpret it in the most positive possible light.

 

[Bill_McBride]

Sean -- "greensomes?"

My wife and I played a match against our host and his wife at Alwoodley in July -- he called the game a "Pinehurst!"  We both drove, each played the other's ball for second shot, then selected the ball to finish the hole alternating the shots.  It turned out to be really fun, particularly as Kathleen chipped in for birdie on the 17th and we won the match 2 up.

I think the Huckster calls that a Modified Chapman.

That would be fun for the second round on Saturday, although more shots than one hits in the regular foursome game.  What I love in foursomes is walking down the fairway while your partner drives, with the objective of hitting the ball as soon as it stops rolling!

[THuckaby2]

Bill - that is indeed what I called a Modified Chapman - and while I could have the term wrong, that is also a lot of fun.  It would appear this is what Sean and the rest of the world call "greensomes."

There are various rules twists on this also - one is you can switch back after 2nd shot, then do alternate.

I tend to play more of these than straight foursomes because most people accept these, given you do at least get to hit every tee shot.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

On page 142 of the Nov. issue of Golf Magazine, Eamon Lnych writes that Muirfiled (aka Teh Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers" is, for the most part, a two-ball track "so your foursome might have to play alternate shot."

[THuckaby2]

Mike - The Honourable Company most definitely plays foursomes - the way they work is fourball in the am, foursomes in the pm.  They are very strict about these rules.  I'm not sure if it's this way for members, but it is definitely that way for visitors.

[THuckaby2]

Sean:

Hell I thought all of this was one form or another of "Chapman."  But the terms do get lost on me at time.

In any case Greensomes is very fun and is a very strategic game indeed.  I had thought this was a pure "Chapman" but again I could be wrong.

What I called Modified Chapman was to switch balls, each hit the other, then pick one - that is do the switch after the 2nd shot and then start alternating.  We played this format one round in the most recent King's Putter event - had some very interesting results.

Greensomes is more strategy, MC allows for more shots.

[BCrosby]

Bob -

I have not played many alternate shot matches. And I agree that when your round ends you feel like you are being asked to leave a bar with your beer glass still half full. Nonetheless it was enormous fun at Sandwich.

The atmosphere the format engenders is unique. It's a combination of golf lite and a walk through a beautiful park. The format invites you to study the course. You have the time to take things in without being consumed by your own shot mechanics. You often see the course from outside normal lines of play, something that is almost always a revelation, but something I rarely do when playing my own ball.

I am convinced that I know Sandwich much better for having played alternate shots. I would happily play the format again, especially on a course that I didn't know and merited study. I would love to play PVGC that way, for example.

Bob  

[Jfaspen]

This is something I'd like to have the luxury of doing on golfing trips where i'm studying new courses (Bandon, Scotland, Ireland, etc).  The morning round should be when you're at your best and you try to make a good score..
The afternoon round could then be an opportunity to study as some have suggested and to think deeper about strategy (providing your partner the best show after you learn his game).
I've never played a match this way, but as my ability to devote time to golf and GCA increases, I look forward to experiencing it.
jf

[Philip Gawith]

I'm with Sean on this one - as a second round in the day, particularly if it follows a good liquid lunch, which is always welcome in the winter, it has a lot to recommend it.

My club is one of those Sean refers to where fourball play is only permitted after lunch on weekends (and that is a recent development - which caused some old members to resign for the rest it is a two-ball course.

I think Bob is right when he says the clubs who play a lot of foursomes do it that way because they have always done it that way. But if you press a bit harder, I think there are two other factors:

First, foursomes golf is played mostly at quite traditional courses. The ethos of these courses derives in part, I would think, from Oxford and Cambridge who play all their competitive golf in the winter months (hence the President's Putter at Rye in the early days of January). Summer is supposed to be for exams - and then holidays.

Second, these clubs tend to have older memberships and I think foursomes recommends itself more to older players who are not so desperate to flog their own ball and like the camraderie of foursomes.

For myself, I increasingly enjoy foursomes, by way of variation. For anyone who says that the true measure of a person is found in how they behave on a golf course, that truth is multiplied many times when it comes to foursomes. It is one thing to keep your composure when screwing up your own round, but something else altogether when your partner is screwing up your round.

[ForkaB]

I agree with most of what has been said above.  Foursomes is an acquired taste, and the people and clubs who embrace it fully do so for their own (largely historical) reasons.  I play from 3-10 foursomes rounds a year, mostly in competition (stroke and match play), and that is about enough for me.

One thing that has not been mentioned is how great it is as a way to introduce young children into the game.  Beginners (particularly young ones) can get very frustrated with golf's difficulty, and actually finishing a round can be problematical.  But if they play alternate shot with a reasonably good player, they can get a sense for what the game is about whilst also participating.  Some of my most fond memories in golf are foursomes matches played with 7 and 8-year olds for whom making a 20 yard carry over a bunker was as satisfying for them as holing out from 180 yards would be to us.