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johnk

How the UK views Cups
« on: September 14, 2005, 01:37:03 AM »
The following quote sums up the much higher level of fascination the UK and Euro golf world has with international team competitions:

"It was only just more than a year ago that Sam Torrance, the outgoing Ryder Cup captain, sent a message to Ada O'Sullivan, captain of the Great Britain and Ireland Curtis Cup team, saying: "There's only one missing. You know what to do.""

Now Sam was talking about 4 cups.  Currently, 3 are held by the US and one is in Euro hands.  Do you know which cups he refers to?  And for bonus points, name the venue for the next Curtis cup.

I'm here to say that UK golfers just care about this stuff much more than Americans golfers do.  Many GCA people might be able to name the major competitions, but go to any UK club and you'll be able to find a surprising number that know them all.



Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 06:44:40 AM »
It's certainly not just true of the golf world, John - the UK and other European countries are much more used to having their best athletes and teams representing their country. American sport is much more insular...witness the (IMO quite shocking amount of) resistance to the proposed World Cup of Baseball for next spring. England, for example, has national teams in soccer, cricket and rugby, and joins with the other "Home Nations" to produce combined UK teams in track & field, tennis (Davis Cup), and other minor sports which are too numerous to name (including individual sports where the participants are strongly linked to be "representing England" or Britain/the UK).

Notably, of the major sports only in soccer do club teams generate anything like the buzz and interest of the national team. Of the major US sports, "Team USA" normally only comes together once every few years, and that team is entirely subservient to the professional franchises. Nobody gives a damn (not really even the local supporters) about what happens to Newcastle Falcons if Jonny Wilkinson is injured playing rugby for England, or to Lancashire County Cricket Club if Andrew Flintoff is injured playing cricket for England - but many Boston Red Sox fans think it's a travesty that Manny Ramirez or David Ortiz might even be exposed to the *possibility* of injury while representing their countries at the World Cup of Baseball.

Point being, as long as particular American sports continue to directly or indirectly emphasize domestic team or individual competition, their national teams are going to suffer. When it comes to the Ryder, Walker, Solheim or Curtis Cups, even when the team being represented is "Team Europe", Europeans are used to the idea that to represent your country is the pinnacle of sporting achievement, and they tend to play passionately for the flag, whereas Americans aren't and don't (at least not as much). That certainly seems to be the case vis-a-vis the Ryder Cup, don't you think?

Cheers,
Darren

johnk

Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2005, 12:05:16 PM »
DK - yes, it does in the case of the Ryder Cup.

However, in the case of the other three golf cups, it doesn't.  Those US teams are just as passionate and excited about the events, I think.  The audience however, is not. The Solheim Cup is an example of US players being extremely passionate about playing for the cup.

For the male teams that come from successful leagues in the US, part of the reason Americans aren't as focused on international team competitions could be that the US is the most diverse international populace in the world, is the world's largest and most lucrative sports marketplace and has major sporting leagues that already attract the best talent from all over the world.

E.g., there really aren't many great players from national baseball teams that aren't already competing in the US.  Even Cuba has suffered a lot of defections in that sport recently.

So Americans aren't that homogenous in identifying with one national home team, and they are used to seeing the world's best compete in their favorite sports.  Maybe that's why the audience isn't as involved.

I even think that applies to the Ryder Cup.  I'm not sure it's the players, I think it's mostly the audience that doesn't have the same passion.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2005, 12:16:17 PM »
John K
One slight correction concerning sporting leagues that attract the worlds finest players..that only applies to the sports that dominate the american scene ie  american football, baseball and basketball...all of which are sports the US "invented" and as such dominate...
The worlds most popular game..football..certainly does not attract anywhere close the worlds best talent on these shores, the same would aply to numerous other sports.

ForkaB

Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2005, 12:27:22 PM »
M W-P

You are right about soccer ("football") now, but just wait and see......

The USA is (are?) #6 in the latest FIFA rankings and England #11.  Sic tranist gloria Albion......

The 2nd most universal sport in the world is basketball.  Look there for the future of soccer.  30 years from now even Chelsea will be a minor league team (even if Abrahmovitz isn't incarcerated long before then....). :)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2005, 12:38:05 PM »
Oh Rich
You are trying to get me all riled up.....
Clearly the world soccer rankings are not accurate but that is another story.
I predicted 15 years ago that the US would win the world cup before England did again..and I stand by that prediction...however..I do not see a league set up in this country to rival those of Europe in my lifetime, there will be a continued drain of US talent to Europe in search of the money and the better competition..but eventually who knows..the American public is goign to have to change from taht baseball/football/basketball mentality and that is going to be a hard sell

ForkaB

Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2005, 01:07:26 PM »
Michael

Glad to see that I succeded in riling you up!

Vis a vis the future of soccer (or any sport and/or endeavour) do as "Deep Throat" (RIP) advised, namely:

"Follow the money!"

Abrahomivitz is transitory.  Glaser (unattactive as he may seem to be) is the real deal.  Once the US sees how much money Glaser makes from ManU (and it will NOT be through bleeding the franchise and the club, but in building it), the UK and Spain will find it hard to compete.  And then, 30 years from now, everybody will be taken over by the Chinese and the Indians...............

Cheers?

rich

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2005, 01:33:22 PM »
Cups?  It all depends on whether they are A, B, or C cups and what they do for a 36", 38", 40" or whatever cleavage.  

johnk

Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2005, 02:14:39 PM »
Ah Mark, I didn't think I'd ensnare you with the entendre opportunity :)

And Michael, I agree, and I was thinking of soccer when i wrote: "successful leagues in the US".  As far as numerous other sports, I can only think that F1 and Cricket have anything that surpasses the money and TV audience of say, PBA Bowling...

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2005, 02:55:26 PM »
JK
Add snooker, darts and Rugby to your list if you are using bowling as the criteria ;)

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2005, 06:06:08 PM »
Because neither side inolved an A-cup, B-cup, C-cup or any other form of cleavage enhancement.

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2005, 06:19:13 PM »
John Huggan provides an interesting perspective, as usual.

Tom Jefferson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How the UK views Cups
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2005, 09:13:25 PM »
John K;

Can't help but answer your bonus point question of the next venue for the Curtis Cup............right here in Bandon, Oregon!

Pacific Dunes is the host course, and I believe, as do many, that it will be a great venue, firm and fast with strong summer winds......great ingredients for match play.

Beautiful fall weather here the past two weeks.

Tom
the pres

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