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Kelly Blake Moran

Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« on: September 23, 2005, 10:49:04 AM »
To start below is a quote from Steve Lapper on another thread:

“Phillip,

  We  (Kelly Blake Moran, Peter Zurkow, and I...along with the help of Karen Moraghan and Paul Ramina) are doing just that. As some here may already know, we've won the "beauty contest" to build a municipal property, daily-fee course in Old Bridge, NJ. The site, a wonderful pair of rolling ex-farmland fields, is only 12 minutes from Staten Island and 35-40 minutes from Manhattan.

  Rather than get into all the details, and there are many....I'll properly defer to Kelly and let him describe it to GCA. It won't be too tough, nor too easy with fewer-than-normal bunkers and larger-than-normal greens that will be naturally positioned amid extensive runoff and chipping areas. The ladies angle will be considerably more than the usual afterthought and hopefully it'll quickly evolve into a USGA Womens event location.”

Old Bridge is a private/public venture.  Fortunately, because of GCA I met Mike Sweeney, who ultimately introduced me to Steve Lapper when I inquired of Mike who might be interested in such a venture in the New Jersey/New York City/Staten Island market.  First I will paste in a section from our submission to the Township:

“The Old Bridge Golf Course has been routed after extensive periods of time spent on the site familiarizing us with the magnificent natural features of the land.  Other considerations that influenced the routing plan are the wetland fingers that protrude into the land at several points.  In order to avoid a lengthy and uncertain permitting process we deliberately avoided playing over the wetlands where proposed clearing of trees within the wetland would be required, and would prolong the permitting process.  

The Old Bridge Golf Course is a par 35 on the out bound holes, and a par 36 on the in bound holes.  Each loop of nine holes begins at, and returns to the clubhouse.  There are 6 sets of tees to accommodate the wide range of golfing abilities expected to play at the course.  The championship tees measure 7,005 yards and are intended for expert players.  The back tees measure 6,745 yards, and are intended for the low handicap players.  The middle tees measure 6,340 yards and are intended for the average players, and the better senior players.  The midward tees measure 5,500 yards and will accommodate average senior players, and longer hitting lady players.  The forward tees measure 4,935 yards and it is expected that beginning players, or players who hit the ball a short distance will be well suited for these tees.  The junior tees measure 3,000 yards.  Young, beginning players will find great enjoyment in being able to play a course that allows them to learn the game while making each hole play at a comfortable distance.  

The course features will be constructed with the least amount of earthmoving possible.  In some ways it will be like a renovation project on an existing course where we minimize the disruptions to the site by only disturbing the areas where the greens, bunkers, and tees are located.  This approach will allow us to strip only the topsoil that is required to build the features, thus keeping intact the delicate soil structure, and natural grasses and vegetation on most of the site.  

Almost every hole on the routing has some significant landform incorporated into the design of the hole.  Many holes are placed on top of ridges, with the descending slopes on either side of the ridge.  This strategy accentuates the importance of the terrain in the ground game, where the ball is directed by the pitch in the land, and accentuates the importance of the uneven stance, where the player is either helped or challenged by sidehill, uphill, and downhill lies in the fairway.  Examples of these types of holes are holes #3, #4, #6, #9, #12, #13, and #17.  Even on a much smaller scale, the green sites are greatly enhanced by their placement on magnificent, natural landforms like the ridges at the green sites of holes #1, #4, #12, #13, and #15, like the low, intimate spots on holes #2, #5, #14, and like the high, dramatic hilltops at holes #3, #6, #9, #17, and #18.  Other holes offer a variety of sidehill lies, such as hole #10 where the ball on the fairway will be above the right-handed player’s feet, and the next hole, #11, where the ball in the fairway will be below the right-handed player’s feet.  These attributes are critical to capture in the routing plan phase, and will greatly enhance the opportunities for us to design a golf course that will be unmatched by any course with regards for strategic excitement for all levels of players.  

The golf course will have fairways of a generous width to take advantage of the varied, and broken natural terrain.  This will give the better player the opportunity to play the edges of the fairways in order to gain better approach angles into the greens, better stances in the fairway, or better bounces in the fairway to gain distance or advantageous positions.  For the average player, wider fairways are more forgiving, and allow the player who cannot strike the mighty blow off the tee more options to position their tee shot in the fairway to make the next shot easier, and maybe gain some advantage by playing a thinking game.  

The golf course will be designed in a way that makes the undulating natural features foremost in the final design of the fairways and greens.  In this way the course will play differently each time depending upon where the pins are placed on the greens, and which part of the fairway or the green the player’s ball finally comes to rest.  More emphasis will be on the strategic placement of bunkers rather than on the number of bunkers.  These design qualities are essential to our desire to provide a golf course that is pleasurable to the greatest number of players, that is rich in strategic design and requires thoughtful consideration each time it is played, that gives the average player a challenge without being unfair while making the better player excel at all skills if they want to shoot under par, and finally, that creates a golf course which appears to be sewn into the natural landscape in a manner that makes it hard to distinguish the manmade work from nature’s work.  

The course routing respects one of the most important traditions of playing golf, and that is being able to walk the course rather than relying upon carts.  The pleasures and insights gained from walking a course are important to understanding the design of the course, and appreciating the natural surroundings. Despite the need to cross a road twice, and despite the separations between holes caused by the wetland fingers, the distance a player must walk in getting from the green to the next tee when totaled for all 18 holes comes to 1,500 yards.  According to Pacesetters, a company that specializes in improving pace of play, the average course in the United States is more than double that figure, or 3,100 yards.”

I am sure you will want to scan the above so I will sum up the main points.  First, we have been very aggressive in promoting our beliefs in the type of course that will be well suited to the golfer.  Our enthusiasm has ignited a bit of a passion fire within a broad circle of local residents, thus elevating the expectations and subsequently the pressure on us to deliver on our words.  I find that exciting.  For me design is a life process rather than a business, therefore much of what I wrote above reflects my mindset today.  Key to it is my desire to be better at preserving more of the contours of the land.  Also, I have tried to organize myself in a way that allows me to spend more time on site.  Old Bridge represents a tremendous opportunity for me to be onsite more than I have been on any other project.  I feel that the most stimulating design happens when you are fully engaged in the process, and certainly you are no better engaged than when you are standing there on the land.  More than anything the engagement does not allow you to design in a “cliché” fashion. As someone else said, “Drift, wait, and obey”, and I believe on site is a great place to invoke that little saying.  Ultimately, you want to be different, you want the mystery of creativity to lead you somewhere other than where it might lead someone else.  Again, to avoid cliché.   Finally, what has come out of this process is a notion that occurred to me and has become somewhat of a mantra in my presentations to the Township, and that is this project to me feels more like a renovation project.  Quoted from above: “The course features will be constructed with the least amount of earthmoving possible.  In some ways it will be like a renovation project on an existing course where we minimize the disruptions to the site by only carefully disturbing the areas where the greens, bunkers, and tees are located.”  For me this has been a powerful idea that makes me think harder about how to fulfill the letter and spirit of the statement, to find a process by which this can be fully realized.  This is in a nutshell is where we are with Old Bridge.    


Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2005, 05:09:40 PM »
Kelly

When will construction begin and when is the projected opening?

Steve
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2005, 06:14:45 PM »
THE WORLD NEEDS MORE GOLF COURSES JUST LIKE THIS!!!!!

I've been screaming this to Brian Curley for a long time--and he knows it because he has built a similar course in Mira Loma, California called Goose Creek. It is usually close to impossible to get a tee time out there, its that busy and contains that formula for great golf.

Kelly, the course looks like it will be a blast to play. Lots of strategies, and of course it will be really popular simple because if you build  fun, strategic, AFFORDABLE golf, there is just no better recipe for success.

Kelly's plan for Old Bridge:


Matt_Ward

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2005, 06:54:30 PM »
Kelly:

Best of luck with the project -- if the work there is anything close to what you accomplished at Morgan Hill it will be a fine addition to the Garden State golf scene.

Do you have any estimates when the opening will take place?

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2005, 07:12:56 PM »
Kelly Blake Moran,

The "Sketch Plan" certainly looks interesting with center line hazards, shared fairways and a number of other attractive features.

With the location you should be able to draw from North, Central and South Jersey as well as Staten Island.

It would be really neat to have a GCA.com sneak peak outing prior to the official opening.

What's the realistic time frame on construction and opening day ?

Tommy Naccarato,

When your acquisition costs for the land are ZERO it's much easier to offer affordable golf.

I often wondered why a municipality or county in the Met Area didn't develop a "Wild Horse" type of facility.
Maybe, this is it.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2005, 07:32:50 PM »
Pat & Matt, Steve & Tommy,

I promise to post more detail and development stories this weekend, but the course should begin construction sometime next year and look to completion and open to play, weather-permitting, in 2007 or early 2008.

It is indeed quite special and true to its land. The course was already on this land and Kelly masterfully filtered it out. We (Peter Zurkow, David O'Connelll, Paul Ramina, Karen Moraghan, Christian Seraduke & Thorpe Moeckel, and Davis Sezna and his gang at Tandem, and myself)  are all so proud to be partners with Kelly on this amazingly interesting project.

We hope to be able to offer it, in the years to come, to everone in this kooky GCA treehouse, if for no other reason, than to hear the constant kackle of constructive advice criticism and maybe even a little praise. The GCA genetics are indisputable and we hope to do it proud..

More later...

     
« Last Edit: September 23, 2005, 09:33:08 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2005, 07:36:51 PM »
Wow what a contrast on this other thread about Jersey!

Bayonne vs Old Bridge

http://www.bayonnegolfclub.com/page/77-14374.htm

City vs Shore

High End Private vs Muni

I have never seen Kelly so excited about a project. My bet is on Kelly and Steve, and yes I am biased! ;)




Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2005, 09:23:49 PM »
Kelly,

  Best of luck with the project.  Old Bridge is five minutes from where I grew up/my house--where exactly will this be located, if someone is allowed to say?  

  Considering the state of golf in Middlesex County at the moment, this is sorely needed.  Our current county golf course system does not adequately meet the needs of our county golfers; we have 36 holes at Tamarack (Purdy) , an executive 18 at Raritan Landing (Kay) , and  18 in Plainsboro (architect unknown).  Conditioning is generally overwatered or spotty, and the architecture is uninspiring.  Rutgers GC over in Piscataway is public, and attracts many golfers from the state and also NY.  I played my college golf there.  
  To be able to play a "good" course, one must travel to the adjacent counties, so this will be a more than welcome addition.  I'll drive out to LI to play Bethpage before I play on my county's courses.

There is one "private" club in Old Bridge currently, Glenwood, although I am not sure how it is fairing--I have seen a lot of advertising for memberships.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2005, 09:24:48 PM »
Mike Sweeney,

I think this would be an example of TEPaul's big world theory.

Each golf course is targeted to cater to a different market.

It shouldn't be Old Bridge versus Bayonne, it should be Old Bridge and Bayonne.

Shouldn't we applaud both efforts ?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2005, 09:25:55 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2005, 06:39:13 AM »

Shouldn't we applaud both efforts ?

Absolutely. I mentioned in the other thread that I am really intriged by Bayonne GC.

My range of courses played this year ranges from Sand Hills to 9 holer Broadacres in the Rockland County (NY) Psychiatric Center. With a little tree work, Broadacres could be pretty good. Still looking to find out the architect.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2005, 07:21:11 AM »


My range of courses played this year ranges from Sand Hills to 9 holer Broadacres in the Rockland County (NY) Psychiatric Center.

Mike,

I'm sorry to hear that having to wear Notre Dame shirts and hats in public, on several occassions, pushed you over the edge.

Had I known about the traumatic effect that modeling Notre Dame clothing was to have on your mental state, I never would have accepted the bet, and you would now be a free man.

I called the Psychiatric Center to inquire about visiting you.
They informed me that Saturdays, with the exception of October 8th and October 29 were not good, as you have voluntarily confined yourself to your room for the day in order to watch Notre Dame Football and the pre and post game shows, including replays.

Rumor has it that you march up and down the halls on game day singing.


http://fightmusic.com/mp3/ind/Notre_Dame_Fanfare_and_Notre_Dame_Victory_March.mp3


They indicated that Sundays were good days to visit you, provided Notre Dame won on the previous Saturday.

I also understand that you refuse to wear the hospitals garb, prefering instead, blue and gold pajamas, white and gold pajamas, and on special occassions, green and gold pajamas.

When I visit, during the week, or on sundays, is there anything I can bring you ?
A Notre Dame helmet might be a great gift, as the doctors told me that it might reduce the blunt force trauma to your head.   I understand that everytime an opponent makes a first down you're "off the walls", literallly.

I've lobbied hard for your release.  I really have.

And, you'd be out today, and in my care, if the doctors didn't think that I'd be overburdened, since I've refused to relinquish my trusteeship and ward responsibilities with TEPaul.

However, I'm told that you'll be out on either November 27th, or some time around New Year's day.   Which is good news.

In the meantime, keep in touch with those of us who remain on the outside, and think of you .... often and fondly.

I feel so guilty.  
If only you hadn't called and insisted on wagering.
If only I had argued that I needed the points.

Stay well, enjoy your golf and please continue to tell us about the golf course and list any alterations you feel would improve the golf course.

P.S.   The life size Charlie Weis blow up doll you requested is
         on the way.
[/color]
« Last Edit: September 24, 2005, 07:33:45 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2005, 07:42:07 AM »
As promised, here's a little more about the Old Bridge Project:

   A little history of the land: Two immediately adjacent parcels of farm land (Smith and Rose farms) were bought years back by Old Bridge Township with NJ Open Space funds and dedicated to future recreational usage. The town proposed and settled on golf as that usage, and as is usual for public administrations in NJ, took considerable time in it's political processes to develop the course. They hired consultants to determine both feasibility and process management. Only this past year did they finally get to the RFQ/RFP-driven decisional end point.

   This land is, as mentioned before, near perfectly suited for an exceptional course. It is has rolling and continual elevation sloping. It's soils are contusive to good turf management and fast and firm conditions when weather conducive. There are extensive vistas from multiple points throughour the course.

    Most unusual is the fact that only a handful of residences (in this otherwise very densely populated area) border the course and the super-majority of the land has no views of such homes or other structures. It doesn't feel like it's in the middle of a large town at all! Our projected clubhouse site will look out and not see more than 1-2 homes (on the peripheral edge of sight)....only 5 holes.
    The land naturally breaks into 4 compartments (one is solely used for the driving range/practice facility) demarked by lines of tree stands and drainage creeks. Kelly wisely and brilliantly (see his restoration comments) routed the course with minimal intrusion or disruption of these natural compartments. Only a few trees will be removed or trimmed and no real water hazards will exist (see pace of play). Hole #14, a 150 yd par 3, will be sited into a naturally existing semi-tight tree corridor with a green 10-20 feet lower than it's tee box and should be visually thrilling.
    The land will allow for several semi-blind tee and approach shots and one of the very unique holes(#6, a 620-600 yd par 5) might well have both, along with a semi-shared fairway. We intend to test for and use fariway grasses that allow for fast and firm conditions and hope the course assumes a links-like demeanor in short time. We'll not irrigate or change the primary roughs, leaving the heather and tall fescues alone for the most part with the hope that we can educate the public golfer about NATURAL hazards away from the lines of charm and play.

  A full length,dbl-sided, fully-lit and year-round practice facility is planned and interestingly, will be sited away from the clubhouse (neither intrusive to the course, clubhouse-view, or the neighboring residences) down on Partridge Rd and will have it's own ingress/egress. We expect to make it state-of-the-art and instructionally friendly.

    A major goal of ours is to make this place VERY YOUTH AND FEMALE FRIENDLY. Kelly's genius of building youth and beginner tees far forward on every hole, along with an active local youth and woman golfer program will work towards that goal.

    Our combined hope and philosophic orientation is that this course will one day be used by local and regional groups (MGA, NJGA, NJPGA) as well as one day by the USGA to host amateur events like the Public Links and various Woman's championships and qualifiers. We deliberately designed this away from a 7500yd brute that everyone is building and though it will retain plenty of challenge with some of it's Pinehurst-like convexing green complexes and collection areas, it's designed for fun, ease of enjoyment for all golfers, pace of play, and adherence to it's natural land form beauty. We genunely wanted to give something back to the game and help ensure its future!  

    The clubhouse is to be proportionally balanced at 7500-8000sf with extensive terrace seating and done in the style of an older NJ farm barn (w/cupolas/dormers/multiple fireplaces, etc) It will be complemented by a 2400sf proshop/offices and 5000sf open air pavilion (covertible to enclosed for banquets/functions). All of these structure will sit on the highest point of the property, face west/southwest and have magnificant view of 5 holes and few, if any other structures.

     This is neither a pure Municipal nor a "high-end" daily fee. Instead, it's a unique business model that incorporates a bit of both and capitalizes on a relatively low land cost and favorable lease structure. Local and NJ-state residents will have significant benefits accrue to them as a direct effect of NJ Open Space funds and law. Staten Island and NYC residents will be agressively courted and offered competitive packages that seek to earn their customer loyalties.

     This project was indeed a result of Mike Sweeney's suggestion to Kelly to give me a call. From there, Kelly and I walked the property well over a dozen times, pieced together a team of local and regional experts and crafted a swift response to the township's Request for Qualifications. From there, my business partner, Peter Zurkow (Championship-caliber player and veteran of several US AM and Mid-Am's) and I brought in the heavyweights(and boyhood friends) from Pine Valley (Davis Sezna's Tandem Hospitality F&B group and Thorpe Moeckel's excellent clubhouse architectural group) to complete the package. This is a world-class partnership IMHO and well-positioned to make a very big splash in the NY MSA golf market.
   
     The site is the combination of the old Smith and Rose family farms demarked by Amboy(Freneau)Road to the north at the intersection of Lambertson (west) and Partridge to the south. The clubhouse is exactly 1.4M from Exit 120 on the GSP and 4.5 miles south of the Driscoll Bridge (just south of intersection of GSP, NJT, Rte's 287. 1 & 9). We should be within 15 min. of travel time from the west side of Staten Island and 35-40min from the Holland Tunnel.

   To Mike and Pat,

    Like you both, we think the world of and applaud the Bergstol group's efforts at Bayonne. It looks to be a wonderful course. Peter, Kelly and I really respect their genius and abilities. Obviously we are vastly different in both anticipated market and site situations.
    We would love to host a little GCA.com "sneaky" peak pre-opening, if possible.
     I extend our open and sincere offers to anyone in this treehouse to contact me or Kelly for a guided tour of the property at a mutually conveinent time and hope many of you will periodically visit the construction site when we are physically able to accomodate you.

     We hope this project , with it's GCA.com ties, will be a wonderful project-in-motion to examine and learn from for all here.

S

   
« Last Edit: September 24, 2005, 08:06:50 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2005, 08:53:02 AM »
Steve:

Bette and I wish you much success with your project.

Cary
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2005, 09:11:39 AM »
Cary,

    THANKS MUCH!! Of course, you and Bette should make some plans in 2008 to include us on your annual nationwide golf adventure. We'll certainly make you both our esteemed guests.. ;D

S
« Last Edit: September 24, 2005, 05:01:47 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2005, 04:55:02 PM »
Steve & Kelly,
Congratulations - looks very cool.

Kelly - do you have any perspective sketches you could share yet?

Under 30 bunkers looks very effective - esp only 2 behind a green  :)
The greens look large - how large are they?
Total irrigated turf?
Would you share some construction budget numbers?

Steve - good seeing you in NC.

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

ForkaB

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2005, 12:52:11 AM »
Great stuff, Kelly, Steve, et.al.!

Please keep us informed.

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2005, 09:06:00 AM »
Doug, Steve S., Matt W.,

I believe Steve L. answered your questions while I was away at football games, etc.  The projected opening is 2008, however it is so early in the planning and permitting process that we are still trying to get our arms around these issues.  

Mike,

The routing plan captured the land features I wanted in the golf holes.  The actual design has not begun, and I would say the plan Tommy so kindly posted represents a real routing with ideas filling in the voids, not real in field design work, although some bunker locations, fairway layouts etc. do represent ideas gathered on the site.  

For budgetary purposes I have in there an average of 8,000 square foot greens, 40 acres of fairway, and 4 acres of teeing space, these items all totaled would pretty much represent the total irrigated area.  

Right now we have set a ceiling for construction budget at $4,000,000.

My hope is to settle on a budget that makes sense for the financials, and that makes sense for the type of course we want to build as described here, then design the course in the field knowing the dimensions and quantities we have to stay within to be true to the budget.  So, at that point in some sense the routing plan you see goes out the window, and we won't know what it will look like next from the air until we reach the final hole to be constructed.

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2005, 04:43:33 PM »
Kelly,

I didn't see this thread when it was first up, but I stumled onto it while looking for another thread.  I am impressed by the look of the course diagram.  The stretch from 4 through 8 captivates me.  I particularly like the shapes of the greens for the par threes and on six and seven there is the prospect of being in the same bunker on consecutive holes (shades of Oakmont's church pews).

And the closing stretch beginning at fourteen with yet another funky green.  All of the holes in the sequence from 14-18 provide opportunities to score if you execute well.  I am almost salivating at the look of 18.  

I am looking forward to the completion of this tract.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2005, 06:37:01 PM »
I was out of town when this thread was started. Thanks for bringing it back up.

Great stuff Kelly. Fascinating. Is there some Bottle Hole in the 17th?  A bit of the 10th at Riviera in the 18th?

I love the combination of centerline hazards and width.

Keep us updated.

Bob

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2005, 07:11:08 PM »
 Steve and Kelly,

  Good Luck! I was wondering what you guys were looking at when we were at Hidden Creek.

    Steve,

    How long and narrow will that #14 green be? It reminds me of a Pocono Manor green.
AKA Mayday

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2005, 08:59:03 AM »
Mike,

  Thanks! ;D

   The 14th, while (as Kelly noted) is still "in concept" will almost certainly be a narrow and long green. It might even be a prime candidate for a Biarritz-style green. The hole is naturally situated inside an already situated opening between a chute of trees (kind of reminds me of #7 at Butler National). It will play slightly downhill and will be mostly wind-sheltered with the apparent wind remaining above the treetop line.

   The actual green length and width can't be accurately measured just yet....

  Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 09:00:17 AM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Old Bridge Golf Club, New Jersey
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2005, 09:01:49 AM »
 I was thinking "biarritz".
AKA Mayday

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