[Geoffrey Childs]

On another thread discussing the merits or lack thereof of critiquing, rating or reviewing a course from a single play Cary remarked that his initial impressions seemed to be pretty good/consistent but he did not recall finding a course BETTER on repeated play.

I found that to be a bit odd and frankly sad if really true as I believe a mark of a truly excellent design is that you learn more about it with repeated plays and it gets better and better as your knowledge of its secrets unfolds.

I listed a few courses such as

NGLA
Friars Head
Hidden Creek
Yale
Winged Foot East
Fenway

as a few examples of courses that make me feel better about them with repeated play.

What are such courses and more importantly I'd like to hear your views on WHY they leave a better impression after you have played them over and over.

[Ian Andrew]

You didn't list the Old Course, but a facinating set of greens has more impact than any other single element.

You played CC of Scranton with me, think of how much those greens made that course facinating.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Ian- Great examples


Sadly I've played both the OLD COurse and CC of Scranton only ONCE.  They are not eligible for my list but I would be surprised if they did not make others lucky enough to experience multiple plays.  

Is it solely the greens at CC of Scranton or are other features  responsible for its continued interest?  It certainly is routed over wonderful moving land.

All the courses on my initial list had very bold greens.  I now must add Bethpage Black to my list.  Its routing and tee to green challenges when combined with altereing conditions of play make it grow on you for sure.

[Tom_Doak]

I think it's mostly the greens.  If there is a variety of contours and hole locations, you don't really get to see what it's like to play to all of them on a single visit, because you don't see how the ball bounces when it comes in from a certain angle.

[A_Clay_Man]

I'd add interesting lies, to those great greens. Lies that are rarely if ever flat, with the subtlety to gracefully change within just a few yards.
I.e.s, the left side of the ninth fairway at Pebble, has subtle areas which are flatter than others. The first at Spy, also has these step like features but not so obvious as to look like steps. Subtle

[A.G._Crockett]

1. the greens

2. the "quirk" factor in the fairways

3. wind

[cary lichtenstein]

Geoff:

You learn a course with repeated plays, the green complexes, the nuisances of the greens, traps, where to hit the ball for best access to greens and best fairway lies,you learn to respect the courses resistance to scoring, what side to miss the greens

Cary

[Geoffrey Childs]

Geoff:

You learn a course with repeated plays, the green complexes, the nuisances of the greens, traps, where to hit the ball for best access to greens and best fairway lies,you learn to respect the courses resistance to scoring, what side to miss the greens

Cary

Absolutely- However, far too many courses should supply no-doze for regular customers/members.  You play them on cruise control.  Its the good ones that put a smile on your face with each new discovery.  Lots of that is in the greens and surrounds but that ddoesn't take into account learning about the slight offset fairway on #11 at Bethpage Black and how your aim for optimal angles into the green is tricky and depends on the wind or how much to bite off on the tee at #7 depending on tee placement and wind.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I think there are two factors that provide the added enjoyment on repeated play.  Not neseccarily in order.

1)  A requirement to hit different tee shots depending on pin positions.  Not only does this require a command of your golf swing, it also requires an awareness of place as you find your way around the course.  All to often I find myself in tunnel vision mode, awareness of place requires that I collect information from any holes nearby.

2) Not just putting surfaces but green complexes provide greater interest.  This may be an admission of how many greens I miss, but more importantly the short game places pressure on my ability to solve complex problems, engaging all of my experience and shot making.  

Just think of how many golf courses with flat uninteresting green complexes are on your personal best of list.

[BCrosby]

Contours. Both macro and micro. They are the hardest feature to see, understand or remember. Most other features you pick up on immediately and remember forever. Bunkers, greens shapes, treelines, OB, water, etc.  

Contours are at the heart of why it is so hard to "know" TOC, for example. There is an infinite variety of things going on with contours that makes them impossible to absorb quickly on such courses.

[Ian Andrew]

A windy site can also provide infinate variety just with the moods of weather. I had the fun of playing Highland Links in three entirely different wind conditions. Each time the course forced me to play a completely different style of game. I played a couple of long fours wedge one day, and 3 iron the next. The courses in the UK bring more of this to the table than a parkland layout, but there are still many great examples like Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes where wind adds more variety.

[Wayne_Kozun]

What about very different tee decks?  Devil's Pulpit has a large variety of tee decks, some seem to be about 40-50 yards left/right of others.  This could make holes play radically different depending on where the tees are set up even when a hole plays the same length.

[Matt_Sullivan]

Choices created by half par holes help prolong interest and increase appreciation over time.

Short par fours and reachable par fives are the obvious ones -- how aggressive you are on a given day will depend on wind and weather, pin and tee locations, your score and swing for the day. But long threes and long fours also add interest -- do you take them on or play safely for bogey and so on.

Not only do these types of holes add interest to every round, but you learn more about how to play them each time -- what works and what doesn't. And so the course gets better by revealing more subtleties, subtleties that can be different for each player, reflecting the individual strengths and weaknesses of their games.

 The only feeling in golf equivalent to taking a chance and pulling it off -- by reaching that par 5 in two, say -- is making a hard fought par on a tough hole by thinking carefully and pulling off a couple of clutch, if conservative, shots.

I like courses that offer both these experiences. They tend to have the most longevity for me.

[MikeJones]

It's interesting that courses that are often seen as unfair on the first play only reveal their secrets after several plays.

I would also say that courses that provoke confussion in the mind of the golfer as to which way is best to play the hole, are going to be more more fun when you have had several attempts at figuring them out. A lot of UK Links courses fall into this category.

If a course looks and plays straightforwardly on your initial play the chances are it won't seem any better on a return visit.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()