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T_MacWood

Re:With a piece of land like The Old Course
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2005, 12:58:45 PM »
Bob
I believe Hutchison is one of the more underappreciated architects of that era.

It is ashame Mother Nature destroyed the original Princes; it was one of the most important designs in GCA history. The British equivalent to the NGLA...which it predates by a few years.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 12:59:37 PM by Tom MacWood »

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:With a piece of land like The Old Course
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2005, 01:19:46 PM »
My understanding is that is was not Mother Nature that destroyed the old Prince's.

Unless you mean Hurricanes from the Royal Air Force.

Bob
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 04:49:48 PM by BCrosby »

T_MacWood

Re:With a piece of land like The Old Course
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2005, 07:36:44 PM »
Bob
My mistake. Princes was the war casualty; Deal was the victim of the sea. Its damn shame neither came through that period clean.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:With a piece of land like The Old Course
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2005, 12:56:34 AM »
what would you do, what would produce the best course...

I would build a small cottage on the grounds and spend the alot of time making sure everything was where it should be for as long as I were around.

ForkaB

Re:With a piece of land like The Old Course
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2005, 01:38:14 AM »
Geting back to the original question (with a dose of reality).......

It is my understanding that the Old Course, as we see it today, displays much more of the hand of man than many of us would like to think.  If we were able to recreate the landform as it was 2-300 years ago, we would probably find:

--more radical undulations
--few "natural" greensites
--only intermittent grassy areas
--LOTS of gorse, heather and seashells
--tidal intrusion on certain holes

So, do we want to start with that tabula rasa, or assume that we can start with the very different land form which we have today?  If we do the former, we will need much more than a lawnmower to make a golf course!  If we do the latter, we will be severely constrained by what man has already done to the landscape over the past 2-300 years.

A more interesting (and relatively more practical) "theoretical" would be to ask:  "If you had all of the Pilmour Links to work with (i.e. the land on which the Old, New, Eden and Jubilee courses are built), what would you do?"

To really answer this question (and Phillipe's original question) you have to disasociate yourself from the town of St. Andrews and history.  Once you put them in the equation, the question is moot, and the answer is "Do nothing, stupid!"  Take them out of the equation (i.e. assume that you have this land somewhere in the middle of Kansas, or wherever) and some interesting speculation can occur.  But, it can only be speculation. ;)


Tommy_Naccarato

Re:With a piece of land like The Old Course
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2005, 03:04:14 PM »
Geting back to the original question (with a dose of reality).......

It is my understanding that the Old Course, as we see it today, displays much more of the hand of man than many of us would like to think.  
Rich, That has been the contention of many here all along--the new bunkers look like shit.

But knowing about what point your trying to make here, that's been my contention. I don't like the direction its currently going.


If we were able to recreate the landform as it was 2-300 years ago, we would probably find:

--more radical undulations
--few "natural" greensites
--only intermittent grassy areas
--LOTS of gorse, heather and seashells
--tidal intrusion on certain holes

So, do we want to start with that tabula rasa, or assume that we can start with the very different land form which we have today?  If we do the former, we will need much more than a lawnmower to make a golf course!  If we do the latter, we will be severely constrained by what man has already done to the landscape over the past 2-300 years.

A more interesting (and relatively more practical) "theoretical" would be to ask:  "If you had all of the Pilmour Links to work with (i.e. the land on which the Old, New, Eden and Jubilee courses are built), what would you do?"

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. It's something that should for the most part exist in terms of look and feel and once again it's about the direction the evolution of the course is going that brings this concern.

I do think evolution is a good thing, but only when it embraces the original ideology. The would mean that clean edges and exact contours have no place in the home of golf.


To really answer this question (and Phillipe's original question) you have to disasociate yourself from the town of St. Andrews and history.  Once you put them in the equation, the question is moot, and the answer is "Do nothing, stupid!"  Take them out of the equation (i.e. assume that you have this land somewhere in the middle of Kansas, or wherever) and some interesting speculation can occur.  But, it can only be speculation. ;)

Did you notice that you and I were the only ones answering Phillipe's interesting question? I'm surprised Matt Ward didn't want to join in and give his take.

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