[James Bennett]

Redanman (Bill)

you commented ... Rough-surrounded bunkers, even with a fairway surrounding them!

I was surprised at how these have become popular.  However, from speaking with Course Superintendents (who have to do the bidding of the Course Committee) and Course Committee members, two things can increase the use of this style.

1.  A desire for aesthetics.  If a bunker is on the edge of fairway, greenstaff can find it difficult to get a mowing pattern that combines the fairway mower and the rough mower that looks 'smart' all of the way around the bunker.  Wedges of fairway/rough might otherwise occur if the bunker isn't encircled in rough, and you can't have those, can you.  So, suddenly through trying to do the 'right thing', bunkers are encircled by rough.  It also 'helps' that this is the image seen on TV golf.

2.  A concern for the 'foozler'.  At our club, we removed the encircling rough about 12 months ago.  One of the outcomes was that certain bunkers did indeed gather more balls, particularly the uncontrolled 'foozle'.  The main problems have occurred where the terrain and bunker layout is such that the limited carry golfer has very few options of getting on the green (eg a penal bunkering design around a green, with a downhill run towards that green.

So far, we have survived these two issues over the last two years, and most of our bunkers are surrounded by fairway (some on the edge of fairway have rough on one side, and an element of that 'unsightly' wedge of fairway/rough.

James

[Mark_Fine]

It's too tough for the members when it is fast and firm.  The greens were firm during the member/member and look what happened.  An over par best ball score won the event.  

[JESII]

It's too tough for the members when it is fast and firm.  The greens were firm during the member/member and look what happened.  An over par best ball score won the event.  

Not until that post was I compelled to contribute (although I have been reading with interest).

It seems to me that the most favorable combination of circumstances aimed at pleasing the greatest number of members would be a firm (healthy), fast (fairways), wide golf course (room to take advantage of angles) with interesting green complexes (interesting, not overly penal) that may be approached along the ground.

I have never played Lehigh but every account I've heard is of a really great golf course so I assume from that that the green complexes are, at the very least, interesting. This thread has made it clear that a significant effort has been made to widen the course as well as firm up (at least for this event) the fairways and greens.

Mark Fine says that this combination of factors makes the course to tough for the members. I agree that firm, fast golf is more difficult, but I see that in a good way and do not understand the perspective (especially at a private club) that the intellectual challenge of golf should be minimized. I see that as the most significant distinction between playing a course in a soft, high rough, narrow fairway condition and playing a wide, firm golf course.  

The physical challenge will always remain significant, but as the intellectual challenge of trying to position our golf ball properly fades so does the interest in the game. Along that track, soon the game becomes comparable to hitting a tennis ball against a wall. Not much stimulation there.

[Mark_Fine]

Jes,
I was being a bit facetious with that comment but in some sense it is true particularly when the greens are firm.  In my opinion the greens at Lehigh are one of the bet sets Flynn ever did.  They are not over the top, but work perfectly for every golf hole.  When they are firm and rolling, they are tough and perplexing especially if you are not a regular at the club.  Angles of play are important when they are firm but that is generally true on any set of really good greens.  Design features come much more into play in such firm conditions.
Mark

[JESII]

Mark,

Even being a bit fecetious, you touched on a subject of real interest to me as it effects golf course architecture in whole; what characteristics constitute the most enjoyable golf courses?

I'm glad to hear that about Lehigh's greens because, as Pat Mucci will attest, that is where you really defend a golf course  .

Seriously, a course designed and maintained the way you say Lehigh is currently should create the highest form of enjoyment for all levels of golfer. Because it's Flynn, I will assume there are a fairly limited number of forced carries as well as abundant opportunities to play into the green along the ground. These characteristics are, I would think, at the top of the high handicappers list of requirements for enjoyable golf. The width you mention gives the good players room to try different angles, this is a big plus for that group. With great greens it sounds like you've got it all, congratulations and enjoy.

p.s. - a very large factor in the enjoyment equation is the mental challenge presented through a round of golf, and I do not believe that challenge should be limited to one level of player.

[John Yerger]

One issue with the narrowing of many of the older designs fairways that hasn't been brought up was the advent of central watering systems. With the one line systems many courses started cutting there grass to fairway length only as far as the water reached. At Fox Chapel in Pittsburgh, they looked at older aerial photos and after studying them realized there fairways had been cut in terms of acerage. The use of gang mowers in all likelihood also influenced the widths of fairways but with all the attention to greens in old aerials some attention should be given to fairway widths in these photos as well. Original lines of play were eliminated when central watering systems came into being.

[Mark_Fine]

John,
Central watering systems, light weight mowing, make Ameriacn beautiful with tree planting programs, ... the list goes on of reasons for the tightening of fairways.

Jes,
Education can take time even when dealing with very intelligent individuals.  

[JESII]

Jes,
Education can take time even when dealing with very intelligent individuals.  

No question, even more so when people really (think they) know what is best, this site is a great example. The great thing about continuing Lehigh on its current preparation is that you (or those responsible for the conditioning and alterations) need not explain through each step of what the other members will realize. They are intelligent enough to recognize it themselves, even if it takes longer than it could. Actually, the lessons learned the hardest usually stick the longest so it might be best to let them learn for themselves altogether.

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