[Mike_Sweeney]

Our group started @ Yale on Sunday:



Mike Whitaker, Matt Byrne, Jim Keever, Tiger Bernhardt, Mike Sweeney, Bill McBride, Pete Buczkowski, Geoffrey Childs, Bill Steele, Friends of Pat (2), Pat Mucci, Frank Wolf, Mark Rowlinson





Bill Steele on the 3rd



Pete Buckowski in Geoffrey’s favorite bunker on the 6th



Jim Keever, Michael Whitaker and Matt Byrne on the 9th



After being requested and then  being inspected by Pete, a back pin was in place for the day courtesy of Scott Ramsey.



Jim, Matt, Pete, Mike W and Bill Steele


The Creek on Monday always starts with Brunch on the clubhouse porch overlooking Long Island Sound



Mark Rowlinson, Mike Whitaker, Tiger Bernhardt, Bill Steele, Dr Childs, Bill McBride



Friends of Mike



Richard White, Friend, Friend, Scott Wood



I love the vistas at The Creek



Tiger felt a need to experience the entire course including the beach.



And he decided to try it again!



13th green




Climbing the Par 4 1/2  18th


Cocktails and then lobsters for Mike Policano, Noel Freeman, Steve Lapper, John Lovito, Gene Greco, Brad Miller, David Policano @ The Creek's beach club



New Yorkers Mike Whitaker  and Scott Wood



2005 Champion Scott “Mr 67” Wood Meets 2004 Champion Steve “Mr 68” Lapper



Brian Stark, Mike Sweeney, Mark Rowlinson, Jason Blasberg



The Final Big East meeting of Notre Dame and Boston College



Friends of SLCD and the setting sun. Thankfully Jason brought his lovely wife (far left) to round out our group.

Thanks to all, it was once again a very successful outing. The Creek and GCA was once again very generous to SLCD.

Cheers.

Mike Sweeney

[Kyle Harris]

Whoa Mike, might want to watch that "Big East Notre Dame" tie-in, that's only every other sport than football. Football is apparently too good for conference play. So, instead, they'll beat up on the Big East, and get beat by the Big Ten.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kyle Harris,

Like Penn State does every Saturday ?  

Mike Sweeney,

Thanks for two great days and the pictures.

The one of the 9th green at Yale, the Biarritz give observers an indication of how deep the trough seperating the plateaus is.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle Harris,

Like Penn State does every Saturday ?  

Hehe, pretty much  

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike - The two days at Yale and The Creek were OUTSTANDING! I had such fun meeting all the guys from this site... and the courses were quite an introduction to old-school northeast golf.

The fundraiser for your son's school was extremely well done... I know eveyone associated with it must be very proud of creating such an event to benefit the students. Thanks for the opportunity to participate. I hope I can join you guys again next year!

By the way, please tell Dr. Childs that I showed some pictures of the 9th green to some of my buds back in SC and their reaction was exactly what I thought it would be... "There's a ditch in the middle of that green!"

Yeah, and a big one, too!

Yours truly,

Michael "Big Apple" Whitaker

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mike, The Creek event and the purpose of the fundraiser were great. I had the opportunity to see and play some great courses as well as see and meet do many great GCAers. I better time could not have been had. Thanks again.

[James Bennett]

Mike Sweeney

great pictures, and each of them labeled so the uneducated can interpret them easily.

May I respectfully suggest that your photo of the 9th at Yale (the Biarritz) is more illustrative of the green's dimensions than others I have seen on this site, including the 'courses by country' Yale write-up.  The swale is certainly deeper than I imagined, although it is as deep as people have implied in their written word.

[Geoffrey Childs]

By the way, please tell Dr. Childs that I showed some pictures of the 9th green to some of my buds back in SC and their reaction was exactly what I thought it would be... "There's a ditch in the middle of that green!"

Yeah, and a big one, too!

Yours truly,

Michael "Big Apple" Whitaker

Michael my fellow lefty- Thank you for putting a nice smile on my face at the end of a day when I was feeling a bit ill.   I LOVE that line and I hope we get a chance to tee it up before the end of the season.

Geoffrey

[Michael Whitaker]

Geoffery - I'll be back in NY for most of October. I'm definitely hoping to play somewhere while I am back home.  

I really want to play Van Courtland so I can say I've played the oldest public course in America. Maybe I can talk a couple of youse guys into going out there with me. I don't think Sweeney will have any part of it... especially since I'm thinking of riding out there on the subway with my clubs!

[Pete Buczkowski]

Mike,

That was a damn fun weekend - thanks for letting us take part in it.  Hope you and the family had a nice vacation last week.

Some photos to supplement Mike's fine set not yet posted on a thread...

Yale

My favorite tee shot at Yale - the 3rd




The Short 6th...I for one am glad that the green height has been lowered (not pictured - the view from the left bunker)




The Redan




Mike explains how to play the sweeping dogleg right 14th...I didn't listen very closely




The tee shot on the 17th...I'm pleased to say that I used the containment to my advantage




Just to prove to Mike that the fairway bunker on 17 is in play...note the double plateau green contours.  Scott set up some great pins for us - here, 9, and 10.




More photos of the Creek

The best view of the property...holes 6-18 as viewed from the Crow's Nest above the clubhouse.




View from 6 tee




13 tee playing back towards the Sound




Our group on 12 tee after our first team birdie - Mike Whittaker, Mark Rowlinson, me, and Jason Blasberg.  Mike was preparing for his solo later in the evening.  What a great group to be matched up with - good golf, great comeraderie, and wonderful singing!




From 14 tee...didn't know the Creek was a housing track!




Many people's favorite...the view from 16 tee.  




The evening closed with a nice dinner at sunset.

[Bill_McBride]

Mike Sweeney, thanks for making all the arrangements for those great rounds at Yale and the Creek.  For a guy who professes to appreciate "minimalism" in all things GCA, the manufactured holes at both courses were absolutely fantastic in concept and construction.  I was particularly amazed at both courses, and at Chicago Golf Club as well, by the immensity of the earthworks involved in the Redan, Punchbowl, and other greens complexes.  The Redan at Chicago must be 20' when viewed back from the eighth fairway, same with the Eden.

The Creek, with its beach club, must be one of the great family country clubs vs the many golf clubs at classical courses.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Geoffery - I'll be back in NY for most of October. I'm definitely hoping to play somewhere while I am back home.  

I really want to play Van Courtland so I can say I've played the oldest public course in America. Maybe I can talk a couple of youse guys into going out there with me. I don't think Sweeney will have any part of it... especially since I'm thinking of riding out there on the subway with my clubs!

Michael-  I'm in for Van Cortland Park but you must come play Split Rock too.

Yesterday I played at Saxon Woods, a Westchester County public course that I had not visited for 30 years.  My how trees grow!  They can't grow grass there anymore.  I last played it in college when I was in better condition and the par 5 8th hole was a stout 3-shotter.  Yesterday I reached it with my Sonartec 21 degree hybrid (in two!).  I was saddened by the conditions of play and the neglect.

[Billsteele]

Mike-Thanks for a terrific two days of golf and hospitality. As for Yale, I was struck by the severity of the site, the demanding nature of practically every shot and how the routing flowed from hole to hole. The Creek was a delight...very playable with a wonderful setting. By the way, aren't the 8th green at Yale and the 1st green at The Creek very similar (with the mound/slope on the right side of both)? Mike, again, thanks for a memorable two days.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mike-Thanks for a terrific two days of golf and hospitality. .............Mike, again, thanks for a memorable two days.

Now wait a second Bill, it was not just two days!



Bill Steele said, "I don't know if you got my voice mail but I went completely over the edge on Monday night after leaving The Creek. I drove to Bethpage, slept in the car in slot #4 and was in the first group on the Black at 7:18 a.m. I played with three brothers from Lowell, MA (one of whom plays golf for UConn) and we finished in a little under four hours...it would have been faster but we had to wait on the maintenance crews on some holes. After that, with a late flight, I drove over to Tallgrass and got 18 more in...what an enjoyable course (terrific bunkers, green complexes and some fun short par fours...extremely welcome following the Black). Needless to say, I don't think I'll tell my wife all about my trip to the Black...she wouldn't understand."



After that performance, we are think about starting an annual Steele Award at The Creek outing for the most die hard of the die hards!!

Your friend,

The Real Old Guy (I have never slept in a car to play any course)

[Gene Greco]

Bill:

Ah, yes, The Black.

Slept in my car for years to play there.

Would do it again. The place is THAT good.

Just ask Shivas who called me and asked whether its worth it or not. He's still blown away by his day there.

Sweens:

  Another glorious day of golf, good food, friends and drink.

Thanks for putting together such a first class day once again.

         Gene

[Patrick_Mucci]

For those who participated in Mike's Charity outing, and for those who have played The Creek recently, could this golf course benefit from an ernest tree management program ?

Would the holes, vistas and wind be better with fewer trees ?

Is it possible that the George Holland might infuence the club to embark upon such a program ?

[Steve Lapper]

They could easily afford to lose near 200-300 trees. Opening up both the corridors of vision and sight as well as taking out so many of those outlying large elms and oaks would give the turf the much-needed opportunity to thrive and flourish.

Holes like 15 would benefit the most with little or no effect on retaining the integrity of the shot values. The first three holes would also benefit tremendously from a good thinning. #'s 4 and 5 should retain their road wall, but perhaps some branch thinning and general examination might reveal that the root structure of the larger, specimen trees (Elms, I think) is beginning to cluster and encroach, thus weakening each other and leading towards susceptibility to disease and rot.

A place like the creek should have the benefit of allowing all the apparent wind to flow throughout and across the enitre property. Only then will the course and its environs sparkle like they were intended.

Pat is right to suggest this examination.

[SPDB]

Patrick -

Frankly, I don't think the Creek is in desperate need of a tree clearing program. I think there are selective areas where trees could be removed, but by no means is the course choked. I've always thought of the Creek as a course in three parts - almost like a symphony.  The first 5 holes on the upper part of the property give you no indication of the rest of the course as they are very different in character. Part of that is because of the parkland nature of the holes. Some people are also turned off by the row of trees guarding the driveway to the right of 5. I've always liked the linear order of  those trees and feel that they provide an interesting challenge off the tee.

As for the balance of the course (6-18), I think trees should be removed from the interior of the course similar to the successful program at NGLA.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Frankly, [size=x4]I don't think the Creek is in desperate need of a tree clearing program.[/size]

I think there are selective areas where trees could be removed, but by no means is the course choked. I've always thought of the Creek as a course in three parts - almost like a symphony.  The first 5 holes on the upper part of the property give you no indication of the rest of the course as they are very different in character. Part of that is because of the parkland nature of the holes. Some people are also turned off by the row of trees guarding the driveway to the right of 5. I've always liked the linear order of  those trees and feel that they provide an interesting challenge off the tee.
[size=x4]
As for the balance of the course (6-18), I think trees should be removed from the interior of the course SIMILAR to the successful program at NGLA.[/size]  

The bolded text seems in conflict with itself

I believe I suggested a tree MANAGEMENT program.
[/color]

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I had the priviledge of playing Yale with the great and honorable Dr. Childs. It was an experience for the ages. I did resist the temptation to prime the pump on a few holes which the work done met with disapproval by Georffrey. It was a bit on the hot side to push him over the edge. Thanks for the tour Geoffrey.

[SPDB]

Pat - I don't see how the two statements are in conflict. Nor do I know what (if any) distinction there is between a tree management  program and a tree clearing program. My only point in comparing the NGLA was that its tree clearing program primarily targeted the interior of its course. Since the routing of 6-18 is similar to NGLA, the analogy seemed appropriate. While I hope you'll illuminate me on the questions I posed, or that you'll further elaborate on your critique of my opinion, I won't be holding my breath.

What are your thoughts?

[Tom_Doak]

FYI:  There is a pretty restrictive tree ordinance in place in Locust Valley, which The Creek ran afoul of when we were working there back in 1992.  Any tree over a 4-inch caliper requires local zoning approval before it can be removed.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

Many towns have enacted similar legislation.

But, that doesn't mean that trees can't be removed, only that the process is regulated and controlled.

I'd be curious as to the towns position if they were shown old pictures of The Creek, absent a good number of trees.

SPDB,

You can't say that The Creek doesn't need to remove trees in one breath and that they should embark upon a total eradication in the next, and not see the conflict.

I too like the entrance drive and wouldn't want to eliminate any of those trees.  Coupled with the massive stone and iron gate it gives the place a sense of elegance from the moment you make your turn onto club property.

However, the rest of the golf course could use a good clearing, including trees on the upper plateau.

[SPDB]

Pat - If you read my post again you'll see I said no such thing. Maybe it wasn't clear, but I said I didn't think the Creek was choked by trees as many courses are that embark upon a program. I think that point was fairly qualified when I said they aren't in desperate need of tree clearing.  I believe that they could get away with selective clearing, and I was pointing out that they could gut the interior of holes 6-18 (which isn't a dramatic number of trees btw), similar to how NGLA cleared the interior of its golf course. I did limit my comments to hole 6-18, because i think they are wholly different in character than holes on the upper portion of the property, and would benefit more from expanded sight lines.  You feel differently, which is fine, its a matter of personal preference.  

One of my favorite things about the Creek, and one of the aspects of the course that I believe makes it so unique is there is a totally different feel to playing holes 1-5 than there is playing the remaining holes.  How many courses can claim this kind of contrast, and in the kind of dramatic fashion the Creek presents it? Therefore, I would err on the side of keeping trees on the top part of the course, and retaining the sort of intimate feel one gets playing those holes. In my opinion they make standing on 6 tee, and playing the holes down to the water a much more dramatic experience.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

SPDB,

I don't think that anyone suggested that The Creek was choked by trees, although a case could be made that they are highly intrusive off of the 6th and 15th tees.

Trees impede the wind, on what's obviously a site subject to good winds.

Early photos reveal few mature trees on the upper plateau other than at the clubhouse area and a row between the later portion of the 2nd fairway and begining of the 3rd fairway.

Strangely enough, a row of trees appears to the right of the 8th hole, which surprised me due to the reverse redan nature of the hole and what would appear to be a desire to have the prevailing winds impact the play of the hole.

Another sparse row of trees appears to have been planted along the right of # 15.

I suspect the trees between # 15 green and # 17 green have to do with the old cemetery.

Holes 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 are sand and fairway.
There doesn't appear to be a reed or wetland in that area.

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